Suzanne Boyd: Ageless Glam

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women Of Ill Repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. 

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
Wendy, Wendy, Wendy getting old is not for the faint of heart.

Wendy Mesley  0:12  
Well, yeah, especially if you've got like heart disease. No, I guess.

Maureen Holloway  0:17  
I guess it's not for the faint of heart that for sure. But it's you know what, it's even more of a challenge in these, what are we calling them postmodern times I used to think getting old first of all wasn't going to happen to me. And second of all, when it did, it would be time to chill to settle down to take up gardening and shuffleboard. But basically, there would be no demands on me after a certain point and you know, just enjoy the passing show.

Wendy Mesley  0:45  
Ya know, I'm trying to imagine you relaxing and maybe playing shuffle and I can't.

Maureen Holloway  0:52  
No I'm going to draw the line and shuffleboard but every older person I know is on the go. They're traveling or they're running a side gig or they're doing a podcast or they're taking up extreme sports like you look at you, you you say you're 1000 years old and there you are. Windsurfing and kite riding and reverse downhill skiing and whatever.

Wendy Mesley  1:13  
Every day I run a couple just a couple of marathons. No I'm that's a little bit of a myth I'm at not quite 1000.

Maureen Holloway  1:21  
But you are you're very, very active in your decrepitude, but take Zoomer magazine, right? It's a lifestyle magazine for people over 40. That's when it begins. 

Wendy Mesley  1:31  
That's really old 40 yeah.

Maureen Holloway  1:32  
Yeah, who do stuff like that and and hang glide and look amazing while they're doing it. And it's called empowered aging. I think there's a fair amount of pressure and they're like, can we wear slippers all day and watch Jeopardy? 

Wendy Mesley  1:45  
Well, I'm not your you watch Jeopardy, and I wear slippers. So I think we've got that covered. I think we can do both and today we're talking to someone who represents getting older and being kind of fabulous. Suzanne Boyd. She's a fashion icon in this country. Former editor of Flair magazine, the first black woman to head a major Canadian publication a whole well anyway, the resume goes on and on. 

Maureen Holloway  2:08  
Well, to make a long resume a little bit shorter, Suzanne decamped to New York in the 2000s who started a magazine they're called Suede which is a story in itself. But then she was eventually lured back to Toronto, where she is now editor in chief of Zoomer magazine and almost immediately recognizable because she's gorgeous. She's seven feet tall, and she can throw on a paper bag and set it on fire and you know, call it an outfit. So, Suzanne Boyd.

Wendy Mesley  2:36  
I'm not sure if she's seven foot but yet but yeah, she is fabulous. So we want to talk to Suzanne about her achievements and about getting older and being fabulous and the expectations and must must we be- 

Maureen Holloway  2:45  
Fabulous? 

Wendy Mesley  2:47  
Yeah, must read these fabulous?

Maureen Holloway  2:56  
This is a woman who once said comfort is overrated. Ah, yes, you did Suzanne, thought you'd never be caught.

Suzanne Boyd  3:03  
I still stand by that.

Maureen Holloway  3:05  
Okay, so my first question to you is what are you wearing on your feet?

Wendy Mesley  3:08  
Let's see your feet. Let's see your feet.

Suzanne Boyd  3:10  
I'm wearing the brokes, I can't get my feet that high because I'm too tall, with a gold plated topper. 

Maureen Holloway  3:20  
Wow.

Wendy Mesley  3:21  
Wow. Something you still wear high heels like you, you're not seven foot but you're almost six, five and you were don't you like normally like I know it's sort of morning it's early morning for you. But do you still wear high heels? 

Suzanne Boyd  3:33  
Yeah, all the time. 

Wendy Mesley  3:34  
Wow. You know, one of our earlier guests on the podcast was Murray Hannon, the lawyer who is incredibly glamorous, and has this very similar aesthetic as you do. When I remember we asked her is this something that you put on for to intimidate in court and so on? She said no, this is who I am. And I am assuming this is have you always been fabulous? Even as a little girl?

Suzanne Boyd  4:02  
This seems like such a loaded question. I mean, like how do you define fabulous? It's, it's fashion or clothes? Are you talking about my parents, how I dressed? 

Maureen Holloway  4:12  
Yes, yes. 

Suzanne Boyd  4:13  
Well, you know, fashion and clothes. Were always a part of my family. Both my grandmother's were dressmaker seamstresses. They were the vote patterns all around. I remember being changed and dressed all the time. Like you change to go to the botanical gardens for your afternoon walk, you change to go to dinner, you change. So I was always around clothes and fashion and sort of fell into fashion magazines after actually being in news and wanting to be a news journalist. And I was interning at a magazine and someone said oh, you look good. You dress well, you should be a stylist and I said what's that? And so so it's sort of snowballed so I became a fashion journalist, but I use clothes, it's just how I amuse myself. I just like to dress I like patterns, I like color, I like shiny things so yeah, I guess it is me in a way, but I don't think of it that way. It's not my identity or anything like that.

Wendy Mesley  5:04  
So I was checking out your, your Instagram and there's all kinds of pictures going back when there was I think there was even pictures of your apartment in New York and there's so much color and there's so many references to waves being the Caribbean so it kind of gets out of the way because Maureen is not at all interested in in windsurfing, but you like to surf and you learn you learn to surf in the Caribbean.

Suzanne Boyd  5:24  
Yes. When I was maybe an early teenager, I forget what year anyway, in the 80s we moved to Barbados on the surf break my house was across from one of the main surf breaks on the island, South Point, and I became a surfer surrounded by surfers. Then there's a group called the Southpointe riders. It was all boys and a couple of girls and were just marauding around with surfboard skateboards and windsurfing. Amen I remember when the winds when the first wind surf showed up on the break, and everyone was fighting over it. So that's what my identity is. I consider myself a surfer, even though I haven't done it for many years, and I'm not very good at it, but that's my sensibility. That's, that's how I see myself.

Maureen Holloway  6:03  
Once a surfer always a surfer, no matter what. So, Suzanne, you know, your resume is certainly long and available to anybody who wants to check it out, but I'm interested, we are interested, certainly today to talk about the idea of empowered aging, and also the fact that it may not be for everybody, some people just say, okay, I'm done.

Suzanne Boyd  6:27  
Well, empowered aging is whatever you want it to be. So if you're done, that's completely up to you, if you want to keep doing what you've always done, if you want to reinvent, if you want to just stay how you are, it's completely up to you. So we don't, we don't see this putting pressure to be something you're not or what you want to be, but we also think that you know, aging is mischaracterized. It's been mischaracterized for a long time. You know, it's the butt of jokes. It's the, it's the disrespect to older people. It's people being made to feel they should be ashamed of your age. And we're here to change all that. And I think we have it's been 15 years since we've been doing it. Since Zoomer. We just started Zoomer magazine was launched, we're celebrating our 50th anniversary this October, and our anniversary starts then and so at that time, especially when it was created, it was just the first the last, you know, acceptable ism, and it still kind of is.

Wendy Mesley  7:24  
Yeah, it's interesting. I told my daughter who's 24, so she's like a child is an adult, but anyway, she said Zoomers, Zoomer magazines, obviously, like 24 year olds don't read Zoomer magazine. But a lot of other people do, but she was interesting because she's, I guess she's just out of Gen Z or I don't know, I've lost track there's too many generations. But she says Zoomers are what the Gen Z are called. So like who knew.

Maureen Holloway  7:50  
You can't have it. That's ours.

Suzanne Boyd  7:54  
We did a piece on we had Sharon Stone on our cover a couple months ago and she made some very spicy comments about Meryl Streep. And it sort of went around the world it was this sort of viral snowball and it was you know, on CNN crawl and it was on Fox News. It was being picked up in Australia and until you know there was a Britney Spears situation and that's what stopped it from snowballing even further. But all the all the reportage was when she talked to this thing called Zoomer which is odd considering because in America and the States they the Zoomers are the kids and but we had the word first and it's ours so.

Maureen Holloway  8:32  
It's ours. So here's a loaded question then if there obviously there's no exact answer, but Zoomer magazine and Zoomer media is intended for people, some say over 45 some say over 40 What's the demarcation point? 

Suzanne Boyd  8:47  
So so basically when it was created by our founder, Moses Eimer and so he had done City Television and MuchMusic and it was all about being aimed at the boomers. And he always understood that the Boomers were a very important generation, not just because they were young at the time, but it's because there were so many of them and so here was this crowd, sort of aging and when it started, the youngest Boomer was 45. So that's how it started, but we know as if we're lucky enough to get older to live long enough to get older age is a self perpetuating demo, right? So you know, everyone, whether you're Gen Z or Millennium, you're going to be 45 at some point. So I think it's more of a broader point of view. It starts when you feel that you need to start thinking about it. So our audience, we have people in their 30s or 40s, who may have parents they need to take care of or they like our travel content, or they like our health content, because I always say aging is not a ghetto. Aging happens. You live in a society you're part of a group so everyone experiences aging at different levels and at different times and so that was really the point of view. So I don't like to this is funny coming from me, but I don't actually like them to put an age on it.

Wendy Mesley  10:01  
You talked about Sharon Stone, do you, when you reach out to these people do you say yeah, you're you're old, but you're cool so you come on, like, how do you approach them?

Suzanne Boyd  10:11  
I think you don't have to be cool. Like, what's cool is I think fabulous, what does that mean? You know, I think you have to feel in your heart are at that stage in your life where you want certain sorts of information. So there's information about, you know, finance, retirement, how to retire well. How, you know, if you haven't planned, how do you start planning, then there's health? What's the latest on longevity? One of the most exciting stories in the world right now, is this longevity. It's even on succession with the living plus and radical life extension, what's going on in Silicon Valley with AI in the singularity? So there's that there's the, you know, there's the Science Technology story and that goes right down to diet and nutrition every day you read a new study. Is it good for your heart, is it bad for your heart? It's just a superfood, or is it not a super foods?

Wendy Mesley  10:56  
Do you have all the answers? 

Suzanne Boyd  10:58  
Well, we try to have the answers we I feel like we're a navigational tool, we're a guide and you know, so I think the goal is not again to talk about succession, but you know, sort of farcical in a way, but that idea of health and happiness. So that's what you want for as long as possible and how you get there, whether you want to sit on the couch and watch television, which I wouldn't recommend for a very long time, because standing is better for your health and longevity, but you can sit and watch television, or you can go hang gliding, it's completely up to you. And so we try to give the options, here's a menu of things you can do and think about as you go through this stage, which we think is a privilege, because if you weren't getting old, you'd be you know, not alive. So I think that's a positive.

Maureen Holloway  11:41  
It is and as there's no argument there, not from me, not from us, I don't think but there's also and there's no getting away from this, but there's this aspect of passing, which I find really, as a woman with white hair, I gave up passing and I wouldn't color my hair anymore. But there's this there's this idea behind advertising towards older people, especially women that if you do this, you will look your age and you know, personally, I'd rather buy a product or consider a product that makes me look good at my age, but instead we're constantly being encouraged to pass as someone younger.

Wendy Mesley  12:23  
And I'm so tired of the expression, mutton dressed as lamb like, you were what makes you look decent, or makes you feel decent no? 

Maureen Holloway  12:31  
What makes you feel good. 

Suzanne Boyd  12:32  
Yeah, I mean, there is an offensive element to that and when we started, you know, they're looking at words like antiaging. It's a whole category in the cosmetic industry and we're not anti aging, we're pro aging. So how do you talk about it and a couple years ago, Allure Magazine banned the term anti aging, and they want to, you know, Helen Mirren came out and said, don't retouch my photos, and she has L'Oreal and the advertising not to retouch her photos. And it's, you know, because it's so endemic, and it's so deep in how we think about ourselves. It's really trying to find the right language to say, there's nothing wrong with aging and but you want to look a certain way, you see yourself a certain way. So we try not to judge, right. So we actually did a story recently called filter face, the rise of filter face and how these people go on Instagram and filter the living daylights out of themselves. What does that do? Instagram had the studies, their own study showed that it's damaging the images on Instagram are damaging to younger women and teenage girls about body image. So when people in the public eye go on Instagram and sort of AI their faces, and oh, she's 76 wow. I mean, what does that what does that do, what does that do to you? It's almost like fashion and advertising is coming around to it because they understand where the money is that they're more older people and women are saying we don't want to see teenagers advertising skin cream to make your skin firmer, right? It just makes no sense. So now you're seeing this whole trend of, you know, grand influencers and gray haired models like that's like last year just as this gray haired model and you know, obviously older women and then when like jobs being reduced by saline for their sunglasses, and so so is this a trend or is it happening? So that's the question, right? Cool to use older models, or is it going to pass? So these are things we examine and in our daily lives, like I'm starting, we're starting a new newsletter in section called consumer risks and it's precisely about this, like these conversations around parents and how you should feel about the, but also if you don't want to color your hair, don't color your hair. It but you know, and we talked about that as well as if you want to color your hair. Well, here's what you do. It's just personal choice.

Wendy Mesley  14:51  
Yeah, it makes me think of Lisa Laflamme and the whole gray hair thing like I think it was way more complicated than than the gray hair but it has got people sort of talking about how, wasn't just COVID it's everything else it's like, but it does make me think like, is it as cool to be an older woman as it used to be like Marie Hannah and who we mentioned earlier as a fabulous person who you may not identify with fashion wise, but whatever she was-

Suzanne Boyd  15:16  
I just I think she's I think she looks fabulous.

Wendy Mesley  15:21  
Yeah, but she was saying that that men when they turn 50, that people still look up to them as like, oh, you're you're like a god and your wrinkles are so attractive. 

Maureen Holloway  15:31  
Oh, a 50 year old man. 

Wendy Mesley  15:33  
And women. You know, like, I used to think only crazy old lady's got menopause and and it's still like, you can't like say the word menopause because it's just not cool and I am old enough. I am old enough. I remember when it was bad to say the word vagina. So is it still okay to be a woman who is older? Or is it, is it still different for women?

Suzanne Boyd  15:54  
Well, I think it's still different. But I think it's changing. I mean, we just did another another feature called the branding, the rebranding of menopause, where it has become cool because people have seen money in it. Right? There's it always comes back to do you see a market and is there something you can sell to someone. So there's all these celebrities like Naomi Watts and Gwyneth Paltrow and they now have menopause friendly brands and products that they're selling to women in their demos and that was the whole point of the story. It used to be you weren't allowed to say it and now people are shouting it off the rooftops because they're selling it on their websites, or they're finding that they can, you know, they can carve out a position and identity for themselves.

Wendy Mesley  16:34  
Maybe there should be something in between. I don't want to hear about it every day.

Maureen Holloway  16:40  
But money, money remains an issue. And you're absolutely right. I mean, there's a market for it. So of course there's going to be there's going to be a supply for the demand. But that being said, money is an issue for most older people, because chances are you are not as employable. If you're not currently employed, you know, finding a job in your 50s and 60s and beyond, is very difficult, you won't make the kind of money that you did, you might be living on unlimited income. I mean, I look at I used to work in radio and the demo, the ideal demographic, I think, was 25 to 50 and after that, who cares? What? But the truth of the matter is that, you know, older people don't not do they either have a lot of money, they're traveling and they're you know, the Zoomer generation is fine, or they are, I think, you know, my mother who was living on limited income, who would aspire to have that lifestyle. But I mean, that's got to be something you take into consideration. Just to go on a little bit since I'm on it is one of the things I hate about mainstream magazines, from Toronto Life to Vogue is like, I do not have $5,000 for an evening bag. So I mean, is that is that respected?

Suzanne Boyd  17:52  
Yeah, it is respected. I mean, I look at those magazines too and I don't have $100,000 for a Couture dress. But it does, it does inspire me at times, I don't look at them as prescriptive to my life in a certain way. With Zoomer, we feel we are prescriptive in the sense that we are reflecting and relevant to what people are going through, we do take it into consideration. So we have a policy arm and we cover those of the issues. We cover seniors on a fixed income, the health care system. So we do talk about those things, but we also think people want to enjoy their lives. So we do cover the gamut. It's a funny thing with us, we're a niche magazine for a broad audience and that's how we approach it. So we tried to show options, we tried to show we'll show a bucket list trip, but we'll show other things that you can do that don't cost a lot of money. We're not a fashion magazine, per se, even though we have style. So we're not showing a bunch of expensive clothes or fashion because we think at this age, people know what they like to the point where they know what they can afford. But of course our money pillar which personal finance planning, if you're on a fixed income, let's make the most of it how to make the most of your real estate. So we do cover all those aspects as well.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  19:07  
The Women Of Ill Repute.

Wendy Mesley  19:10  
I remember when you went to New York, and you were you were going to do this amazing magazine called Suede and there was so much excitement about it, and it was so cool and then it didn't last and you you know you ended up coming back and it's great and we're it's wonderful to have you and so on, but like what what would what would you do now and would it succeed now? Because I think the ideas behind it were like pretty cool.

Suzanne Boyd  19:34  
Yeah, so Suede was it was a really exciting thing. It lasted four issues. It's a really great business story, actually, because it was a timing and timing was the king of publishing. It was the most storied publishing entity which is why they had been headhunted me for a couple years and but I didn't see the reason to leave being an editor in chief at Flair to go and work in style or People Magazine as not in charge. So when they offered me something to start something new and fresh. I thought, wow, this is a great opportunity. The idea was that women of color, black women, specifically in the states had created so many sort of fashion trends and so many stylish sort of opportunities for the rest of society to have fun with and were never sort of given the credit and so it was to show that you know, where fashion came from. And it was that time when hip hop was really ascending into luxury. So the line was hip hop, we took couture, and the women we were speaking to were, we call them the ultra suede. So people who really, really loved fashion and beauty, who took pride in in, you know, really adorning themselves in a cultural way. It was really great, but it was closed down because of a business situation where magazines, it was the first time you know, legacy media started to feel the pinch and time and had launched five magazines in that year after having profits for just quarters and quarters and quarters and this was the first year they wouldn't make whatever there was their number. And so then there was a decision made to shut it down. There's a lot more to the story. I'm actually writing about it because it's such a great sort of it was the zeitgeist moment, it was a story, but I'm really proud of what I did it Suede because it really set a tone and I mean, in terms of the industry, which was a plus from Advertising Age, endorsed by the New York Times Italian Vogue, the only negative press we got on it was from Canada, and

Wendy Mesley  21:29  
Really? Why, what did they say?  

Suzanne Boyd  21:33  
Well, I mean, when it was closed, I mean, the New York Press was like this is shocking and you know, Norm Pearlstine just said it was unbelievable and you know, he was the editor in chief of Time. But there was a cover story done about the closing five days later, after the New York Press in a Canadian paper of records that was full of untrue things about what had happened and why that happened. And so that's always so interesting, you know, when to your hometown paper. That's the, the unwarranted hatchet job.

Wendy Mesley  22:03  
So now you have a book, I can't wait to read the book. What's it called?

Suzanne Boyd  22:08  
What was really great about that experience at Suede, you know, it's where the staff went, staff had come from some of the best publications in America and some from Canada. And they all they're hard at Vogue and style. They're hard at all the best places and to this day, I get calls from young black women saying, oh, my gosh, I wish we still had this. So it's become sort of like a cult thing where they say I have all four issues and this is what it is. It's still on mood boards of great stylists and great fashion people, you know, around the world so we're very proud of that record, but in a funny way, it led me to this job. Because when Moses, I was sitting in New York just for four years, and I was having a great time, I didn't work for a while after, because I'd worked all my life with no vacations and you know, I said, I'm just going to take a break do yoga at 11 in the morning. go to parties, don't worry about covering them and doing a bit of writing for Vogue and for Oprah just doing the odd thing for fun. And so I just got an email out of the blue from Moses, who said, I've taken control of a magazine that has the large largest circulation than Flaire. Snd I had never heard of it, it was a CRP magazine. So carp is a Citizens Association For Older Canadians. So he wanted me to take this magazine and sort of rebrand it as a lifestyle publication that could sell against the best Canadian brands and American brands on the newsstand. And what was very similar about it, even though it didn't seem like a fit, like CRP magazine had great information came off like a medical template. There was no production, no lifestyle, but it was for underserved market and that's what I liked about the idea was like for Twain it was about an underserved market. Black women in America spend so much of their income and their energy on fashion and beauty, but they're never spoken to. Advertisers do not talk to them. marketers do not talk to them. They don't want to lend the clothes to the black celebrities at the time, fashion houses, even though hip hoppers were buying all the Louis Vuitton and they didn't want to admit it. There was that sort of stigma that we had to say, look, this is a magazine that is as good or better than a lot of magazines out there. We have the production values, we have the audience, you should speak to this audience for our pages. And it was the same thing with Zoomer we have this population, no one was speaking to this audience in a respectful way, talking to them specifically about them. You had other great Canadian brands saying oh, we don't want the older audience. We want to be younger, younger and we're still come to us. We want the older audience because we think you're valuable. We think you have a story to tell. We think you their stories that should be told to you and information you should have served to you in a respectful way. It was really the same impetus for me as an editor to want to do both those, both those jobs.

Maureen Holloway  24:51  
I want to get a t shirt that says I'm old and I'm proud.

Wendy Mesley  24:55  
I think Maureen wants to be on the cover. I would like to be too. Hi, we're here.

Maureen Holloway  25:04  
Well, I mean, that's getting back to Wendy's observation that when you approach people you are acknowledging that they are a certain age. Zoomer icon, yeah, there are certain age you're not going to have you know, Halle Seinfeld.

Suzanne Boyd  25:16  
Male Female thing. We have more women who would, men say yes, easier to our recover. 

Maureen Holloway  25:21  
I bet.

Suzanne Boyd  25:22  
Because a lot of women don't want to say oh, I'm old enough to be on this cover.

Maureen Holloway  25:28  
I was a magazine girl, you know, I bought them when I had no money. I would still buy magazines and and I still get the the actual tangible paper magazines, Vanity Fair in particular, but not nearly as much and I'm missing something I'm not big on looking at them online. There's something about glossy pages and so on and I wonder, what are your thoughts on where where we're going with the magazine, Zoomers a media company, but the magazine part portion of it particularly.

Suzanne Boyd  25:57  
Yeah and you know, it was funny when Moses did this in 2008, it was like, oh, a magazine in this day and age, but I think it's about the content and just being really relevant to people's lives. So we are doing something that no one else is doing in print and that can be we have an audience that is used to print and love sprint, but I'm platform agnostic, you have to be in this day and age. So obviously we have a website. We have seven newsletters a week, we have as you send it to a media company with television radio, but also Zoomer media just purchase blog to and the daily hive. So we understand there's a digital pivot in the world, but I think there's room for all sorts of platforms if it's done properly. So will it be the glory days where you know, you had really thick doorstopper glossies and tons of them, no, it's shrinking all the time. But I think it's using the pages as real estate and just treating them as everything on that page and every page you print has to have a purpose, and we really focus on that and then I think the audience will come I mean, our circulation or paid circulation is going up. Our readership is going up and that's because I think we're speaking to the right people in the right way. You know, the glory days were the 90s, right. It's massive budgets and- 

Wendy Mesley  27:13  
Yeah no, glory days at CBC to and I don't think like mainstream media, like good luck, everybody, but, but I want to get to something that you've touched on just before we came on air. And again, you talked about how when you were in New York, you used to do yoga at 11am. You don't get up till like 11am, you like party all night, you're like, you're like a night person.

Maureen Holloway  27:31  
You're like a teenager, or a vampire.

Suzanne Boyd  27:36  
I like vampire better. No I do get up before 11 I just usually start my day around this time. I'm a night person so you know, I read work well into the night and then you know, I get up I read the news, obviously. So like, I don't really like a meeting before 11, but being on camera at 11 is early for me. I feel.

Wendy Mesley  27:56  
Yeah, we are shooting this at 11. So we are we are very appreciative. But I, I do worry I when I was working, I used to like, and I still suffer from insomnia and I think I read somewhere that that you've like had it all your life. So I don't know is there I don't think there is like a magic cure for that other than, like, go to bed at the same time and-

Maureen Holloway  28:15  
A clean conscience Wendy.

Wendy Mesley  28:17  
Oh is that what it is? I have one now. 

Suzanne Boyd  28:22  
I just you know, I think it comes from working in nightclubs in the 80s. After I dropped out of university, I was working in a nightclub midnight to light. So you work on night, then you'd go to France and like you know, or the golden girl and have breakfast and go to the beach or something. So I did it for years, and years and years. So it's I just think it's my body clock. I mean, I possibly couldn't go to a sleep clinic, but I actually find it useful. I just like reading. There's so much to read now. That's one of the issues. I think it's more the mental overload of doing media in this day and age where you have to read so many things. Because all the social media, all the perspective, there's so much content out there and so I feel to do my role properly, I have to take it all in and be able to synthesize it, so when we come up with story ideas, what's going on, what do we need to talk about, but the daily website for the print edition for the newsletters, so I just liked that time of just late at night just just reading a million things and I find that peaceful.

Wendy Mesley  29:23  
Yeah, I like that time of night too. I used to work. Well. I used to work until 11 or 12 at midnight and start early in the day and have really, really long days and I missed that time. I remember Maureen will remember CFM and Virgin Radio. I used to get up at you know, four in the morning, which is when she used to get up, but I would go in and do traffic and I'd be like so quiet and there'd be nobody else and it would be like 4am or while at night going to bed at 4am or 3am or whenever you go to bed and then coming out at nine o'clock in the morning when the traffic was over and there's all these people what are all these people doing?

Maureen Holloway  29:59  
Yeah, I know I got up at 3:30 on and off for 40 years, and only the last year and a half of I stopped doing that and I sleep till eight, like a baby without any problem at all. And so and I stay up late at night, and I love it and so you know, my back to what I think is my natural rhythm kind of like yours.

Suzanne Boyd  30:20  
It does disturb me because I keep reading all these studies and doing all these stories about how when sleep deprivation is cumulative, and it does affect cognition sort of catches up with you. So I'm trying actually to change my body clock and don't start a novel at 1am.

Wendy Mesley  30:36  
Clear conscience apparently is-

Maureen Holloway  30:41  
Clear conscience.

Suzanne Boyd  30:43  
Kiefer Sutherland to start watching it at 2am, that's probably good.

Maureen Holloway  30:47  
Yeah, I know, I know. None of us, the three of us here are in any way, shape or form. Maybe Wendy and I are slowing down, meaning we're not working as much or as lucratively sweet kid. But what what do you see yourself doing down the line? Like I'm worried my worried with my husband retires and he's not going to for a while. But what is he going to do? And I think that's something that a lot of people who weren't going transitioning into their next act are wondering, what are you going to do?

Suzanne Boyd  31:20  
Oh, I haven't thought about it. I never. I probably should. I mean, I maybe write read a book, you know, just no, no, no plan. 

Maureen Holloway  31:28  
Yeah. 

Suzanne Boyd  31:29  
No, I haven't thought about it. But we do think a lot about our audience. We just published another story, it's not in print yet about a woman who was like, sort of someone like me, was the editor downtown person out all the time and then she's she married, and her husband is this sort of high octane sort of person and she's like, he's going to retire and what am I going to do? Like we're together all the time. So they picked up a project like a hobby farm, which is, you know, obviously, they're in the position to do so it's a whole story about how having to navigate this sort of transition into retirement and being busy not being busy. I mean, I should probably think about it. Thanks for asking. I will now start thinking about it.

Wendy Mesley  32:14  
No, no, no, you don't have to.

Maureen Holloway  32:15  
You do whatever works for you. That's just that so many people don't and it's not good. They come to a full stop and they get up the morning after their last day at work and don't have a plan. And you can only travel so much as we know, I mean, you say you're going to travel sure, are you going to travel 12 months of the year? No, I don't think so. 

Suzanne Boyd  32:33  
I think it is and what we've discovered is when people stop without a passion more so a plan. So obviously, there's the plan and needing to be financially prepared and you know, are you downsizing? Do you have enough RRSPs, all that sort of stuff that's a given that needs to be done and if you haven't been doing it, you need to start and figure it out, adjust your lifestyle, when talk to your kids, whatever you need to do, but the other side of it is when you stop and your job was your life, that's what's your passion. Like I will always have the passion I will have the passion for writing poetry. I'll have the passion for being creative. I will have the passion for dressing myself just to amuse myself. So I think that was always the problem when people stopped their job and then they golf with their for work, or that's the stereotypical thing and then you can only golf so what's really in your heart, what do you want to do? And people are finding such a rich vein like volunteering, they start home and that's also kind of what we mean by empowered aging. Not that you have to become a elite athlete at 80 even though we do have people who do who train and now have a million followers on Instagram like Body From Joan, but it's finding that thing that keeps you purposeful and keeps you excited.

Wendy Mesley  33:47  
I just hope that you whatever you choose whatever the plan is not that you need a plan right now. I just hope that you won't be wearing loafers

Suzanne Boyd  33:54  
I bought a pair of loafers, but they were silver and shiny.

Wendy Mesley  34:02  
But, no heels.

Suzanne Boyd  34:05  
I always have a heel in my back pocket, why not? 

Maureen Holloway  34:11  
Yeah, I hear clogs are all the rage this summer. So you know.

Suzanne Boyd  34:16  
They come back every 10 years.

Maureen Holloway  34:18  
Yeah, don't throw them out. Suzanne Boyd it's been a real pleasure talking to you. I really appreciate you taking the time. You look fabulous for what it's worth. We're not supposed to say that, but you do. 

Wendy Mesley  34:33  
I know we're not supposed to say that, ut I know you had a great career and you've done all kinds of wonderful things. But yeah, you look great.

Suzanne Boyd  34:39  
Thanks for having me making me think about things. 

Maureen Holloway  34:42  
Well, we that's we got a lot to think about too. We need a plan.

Wendy Mesley  34:51  
Loafers, slippers, that's my plan.

Maureen Holloway  34:53  
And that's fine if it is. Suzanne thank you so much.

Wendy Mesley  35:00  
Thank you. It's been lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah. And yeah, and Zoomers great, so it's fun. Yeah.

Maureen Holloway  35:09  
You know, we have stopped using the word I have to stop using the word fabulous. Because why is that the only adjective for a magnificent older woman?

Wendy Mesley  35:19  
Yeah well, she she said that if we didn't want to do video that she didn't want to act like a diva, and I was saying, yeah, we'll call you. So I mean, it's a there's terrible words. We shouldn't there are words that you should never use. 

Maureen Holloway  35:29  
Yeah, yeah I know. 

Wendy Mesley  35:31  
Like I always say she was so lovely. She was lovely.

Maureen Holloway  35:37  
She was so fabulous. I have I have not given Zoomer any time. Not not not in a dismissive way. I just never thought I never thought it applied to me.

Wendy Mesley  35:47  
Because you're you're 39 are you? 

Maureen Holloway  35:50  
Because I'm not. Yeah, well, I don't I don't lie about my age. I just don't I just don't want to talk about it because I don't want to be pigeonholed as I used to pigeonhole people who are over 50. I am over 50, I will admit to that. But, but Zoomer sounds like it's a full service. Like, it sounds a lot more interesting than I realized. It's not just like, you know, retirement homes and practice. It sounds like it's anything but retirement home.

Wendy Mesley  36:14  
Some of my best friends are over 50. Yeah, I know. 

Maureen Holloway  36:18  
I think I may have met one or two.

Wendy Mesley  36:20  
It's shocking.

Maureen Holloway  36:22  
But going back to that thing about passing, I remember what I was doing a TV show years ago was the Dish Show was female on the Comedy Network. and I think I was 34 at the time and I mentioned I was 34 and I remember the writer for the show. One of the writers said, don't tell people how old you are and I said, but I'm only 34 Just do it but just don't don't ever mention age not because you shouldn't be proud or not proud, but because other people will decide that you belong in a slot.

Wendy Mesley  36:51  
I know when I just think that's so crappy. I just I don't hide my my age. It's probably yeah, I don't hide my age. But and the only thing that I regret about getting older as we all are because the alternative is worse as they say-

Maureen Holloway  37:09  
Everybody's getting older.

Wendy Mesley  37:11  
Is that I'm closer to the end and that I know that's what bothers me is that and it does it just does seem to go faster. So yeah, I tried to treasure every moment but some moments could go a little faster.

Maureen Holloway  37:24  
I remember somebody telling me recently she's not worried about dying. Now we're taking a very somber turn but she doesn't worry so much about dying is the lack of runway and I totally get that you know the there's just less and less time to launch something and see it to fruition.

Wendy Mesley  37:41  
Well my mother in law says and this is my favorite quote. That life is like a toilet roll the closer you get to the end the faster it goes. 

Maureen Holloway  37:50  
The shittier it is.

All right. Well, that was she was lovely and fabulous and so are you. 

Wendy Mesley  38:03  
Life is like a toilet roll. Talk soon.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  38:06  
Women Of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.