Summer Throwback: Rick Mercer

Matt Cundill  0:02  
Summer in Canada, Maureen and Wendy Lakeside sailing, windsurfing, sun tanning, summering and reminiscing about their best podcast episodes from the past, like this one.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:23  
The women of ill repute with your hosts, Wendy mesley and Maureen Holloway, hey.

Wendy Mesley  0:29  
Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Well, actually, are you? Are you happy? Is it good?

Maureen Holloway  0:39  
Am I happy. I am no less happy than I was last year. Let's put it that way. But, you know, a lot of people died over the holidays. Nobody I know, but a lot of fame as well. A lot of famous people died over the holiday. Well over the past year,

Wendy Mesley  0:53  
Barbara Walters just died, 93 that was, you know,

Maureen Holloway  0:57  
I know, I don't think the actual, the number of actual people in general changed. It's just more famous people passed on.

Wendy Mesley  1:03  
Well, famous people, you know, 93 you gotta go at some point

Maureen Holloway  1:09  
on that cheery note. Speaking of famous people, I was thinking, do you think with little Rick Mercer was growing up in middle Cove, Newfoundland, that he ever thought he would be a national treasure? National

Wendy Mesley  1:20  
Treasure, yeah, no, isn't he also Canada's beloved comic genius. I mean, not bad,

Maureen Holloway  1:25  
yes. If that were me, I would put that on my tax return, occupation, national treasure. So Rick. I

Wendy Mesley  1:32  
mean, people might be wondering, why Rick? I mean, it's women available, don't you just do women. We're like doing we're doing Rick.

Maureen Holloway  1:40  
Rick is our first man, our, well, a first man on the podcast, I should probably say and, but I can't think of a better one.

Wendy Mesley  1:46  
I've known, well, sort of known Rick for years. I mean, it's kind of weird the way I just finished reading his memoir, and there's just so much. I mean, he's younger than me, and I thought I started young, but he started even younger, and we kind of overlap in so many ways. I mean, Meech Lake, he was preoccupied with that. I was obsessed with that for a long time. I was on the Hill. But he's a comedian, so he would dress up as a reporter and do all of these things on the like this hour is 22 minutes. We with a fake news desk, and then he became a reporter with a microphone. But he got to ask all the questions that people really wanted to ask. And he got to, you know, to screw around, which was fun. So it's great the comedian and kind of a political geek.

Maureen Holloway  2:25  
Well, this dovetails really nicely, because our very first guest on this podcast was Mary Walsh. And like Mary, so she would dress up and go on the hill, as is mardella hunting. And so there's that lovely tradition of journalism, cross sectioning with comedy, which was what we try to do. Now, I knew Rick from afar, but I met him in the flesh, as it were, when he joined me and Kim Mitchell for a live don't drink and drive show back when I was on Q 107 which we called the drink and drive show, because that's what we did. We drank live on the air, and we did breathalyzer tests with the opp to show how quickly you could get drunk without realizing

Wendy Mesley  3:01  
it. Well, it was good you weren't working at CBC because we actually did a New Year's Eve show and we had a glass of wine on the air. And people wrote in and said, That's a disgrace. And, yeah, and they seriously thought about, you know, banishing me from the CBC for having a glass of wine on the air.

Maureen Holloway  3:19  
But what about Rick?

Wendy Mesley  3:20  
I mean, did Rick get drunk?

Maureen Holloway  3:22  
No, I did, though. I think the thing about about Rick is that, yes, he's a beloved national treasure, a kind and decent fellow, but he's also really angry and edgy, and that's a very difficult balance to keep. And I'm sure he'll tell us about that. The Rick Mercer report sent him all over the country. He made friends everywhere he went, from Nunavut to tofido. He visited the troops in Afghanistan like a like a modern day Bob Hope. So he's cultivated this absolutely beloved persona, but underneath, he gets to say a lot of shit, yeah. He's

Wendy Mesley  3:56  
kind of like, well, Bob Hope, I can't imagine Bob Hope somehow jumping out of a plane. He went bobsledding and went kayaking. He put on a turbo jegme Sing, and now he's doing stand up. And I think, didn't you say he's doing a podcast?

Maureen Holloway  4:11  
I think he wants to start a podcast. Well, we'll find out. He's done almost everything. He's met almost everyone, but he's, you know, he's no father, Theresa,

Wendy Mesley  4:20  
if there ever was one, yeah, there is an edge under all that. But we love him anyway.

Maureen Holloway  4:30  
We do. He's our first man. And they say you always remember your first So Rick Mercer, welcome. Welcome to women of ill repute. It

Rick Mercer  4:39  
is so great to be here. It is. It's an honor to be the first man I'm transitioning.

Maureen Holloway  4:46  
No, that would be that would like, let's just jump right into that

Rick Mercer  4:52  
new year, new me.

Maureen Holloway  4:53  
How was the old year? My

Rick Mercer  4:55  
year was pretty good, and I'm very cognizant of how bad. So many people had it for the last couple of years, especially in show business, so many people were immediately thrown out of work. Everyone went home to work. Most people in show business say they were out of work at home. I had a book to write, and so that gave me something to do, and it gave me a job in my cabin in Newfoundland, where normally I wouldn't be able to do anything, but I did have a job, and so that kept me sane. I All I've always needed a deadline. I can't accomplish anything without a deadline. So it was a pretty good year. I have to say, it was a weird year, but it's pretty good. I'm also a bit of a I don't know if I'm a full blown introvert, but I'm not one of those people who need to be out doing things all the time, so I kind of adapted to the pandemic pretty well. But I think we all knew people in our lives who we thought, oh, how are they doing? You know, those people who constantly need to be out and about and engaging with people? I'm not one of those people, and I'm not one of those comedians that only feels normal when I'm on stage. I'm not one of those people either, and there's a lot of those people in show business. So I would think overall I did okay,

Maureen Holloway  6:03  
I can't complain. You had a decent pandemic. I did have a decent pandemic.

Rick Mercer  6:08  
Yeah, it was, and I built a place in Newfoundland a couple of years ago, and it was a little seemed like a bit of a folly, but then when the pandemic happened, it seemed like a genius move, because it's a little cabin out on the ocean and has a shed with an internet cable and a light. And so suddenly I was a genius, and I was close to my parents, important and, yeah, so overall, pretty good.

Wendy Mesley  6:32  
I loved the way that you were writing a book. I don't know whether it was sort of inspired by being locked in because of the because of covid, or whether you were going to do it anyway, but I was so struck by the photo on the cover. It's like, it reminds me of like all the lawyers who when they're 70 years old and they post pictures of when they were 40. I mean, you're so handsome, and now I see you, and you're, you're not like 12 anymore. You're like, you're like a human being.

Rick Mercer  6:59  
The cover of my book has the photograph my friend Justin Hall took, and it was the first one man show we ever did. So it was like classic angry young man photo. And it was on the poster, and I used it for years and years and years. So yeah, it's a big throwback. It's, it's like a 19 year old me, maybe even 18 year old me. That's the classic angry young man photo,

Wendy Mesley  7:22  
yeah. Well, and your Twitter handle, it still says anger is my cardio. But then in your book, you say you're not really angry anymore. Oh,

Rick Mercer  7:30  
I'm not angry like I used to be, like I was the classic angry young man. And I think that that act gets tired quickly. And read the reason why it's called, you know, called an angry young man. I don't think people need an angry middle aged man. I think there's angry about I'm not saying you become complacent and you stop caring. Obviously you don't do that. But you know what it's like when you're a young person. If you're engaged in politics or social justice or any of those things, it's all very black and white. You need about 30 seconds on any issue you know exactly what the answer is. And the way forward, of course, as you get older, things get murkier and murkier and and there's a lot more gray than black and white. And then I think that's natural. I think it would be a little tiresome if I was doing the same act that I was when I was 1819, 20.

Maureen Holloway  8:20  
But the things, the things that make you angry, change or they should. So I would think that if you're pissed off by anything right now, wouldn't be what necessarily pissed you off 30 years ago.

Rick Mercer  8:31  
That's true. I mean, Wendy mentions Meech Lake like my first whole one person show was about Meech Lake, and now I've actually changed my mind, but I was angry, because I felt like Newfoundland was getting screwed over, and I was a Newfoundland nationalist, and Brian Mulroney had taken away our trains, and that was infuriating me. And now, you know, these weird Canadian conservative senators were saying things like, Newfoundland should be thrown out of Confederation if they impede Meech Lake, and it would just, it just, I was furious, as were a lot of Newfoundlanders. Now, in hindsight, I look back and go, Well, if Meech Lake had gone through, it probably would have been fine, but I was at the time, I was incensed, and it did drive me, and it became my muse, and I created these one person shows that were really they were just diatribes. I mean, I would be on stage just ranting and frothing at the mouth for 70 or 80 minutes, but I guess I was in the right place at the right time, because there was an audience for that. Yeah, I remember

Wendy Mesley  9:33  
part of that show. I think the last line was something like, and Charles Lynch must die, and he was like the dean of the press gallery. It was like 1000 years old when I arrived there.

Rick Mercer  9:45  
It was called, show me the button. I'll push it, or Charles Lynch must die. And Charles had written a column. And those listeners who aren't familiar with Charles Lynch, this was the former head of the Southern news bureau. This is a famous, very famous award. Correspondent, very famous on Parliament Hill to this day, the press gallery theater and on Parliament Hill is called the Charles Lynch theater, or room. He was a very serious guy, and he was a columnist, and he wrote this column about Newfoundland that was very tongue in cheek, like it was tongue in cheek. But I didn't take it as tongue in cheek. I was furious. Good, how dare he. And everyone in Newfoundland was upset. And Charles was the ultimate shit disturber. And so I subtitled the show Charles Lynch must die. And then he wrote a column about how he's now the Solomon Rushdie of Newfoundland, and this young restaurant put a fat flaw on his head. So suddenly I was being talked about in Charles Lynch's column, which was huge. No one knew who I was. It was a syndicated column. And then he said, I'm going to be there on opening night. And I was like, Oh my God, he's going to be there on opening night. Then I got a call to do some press with the Hill times, which is like the school newspaper for Parliament Hill, and I went to do an interview, and Charles Lynch was there, and I was terrified. It was an ambush, and he was very nice to me, and he said, I won't come to the show if you'll be nervous. And I said, No, no, by all means, come to the show. He came to the show. He loved the show, but he kept writing about the show, and it drove the show. And then he and I went on midday together, and we debated in theory, Meech Lake. And there I was. I was this 1819, year old yelling at an old man, and he was yelling back. And it made for great TV. And it launched the show. And then when I went on tour around the country, every single market I played in, Charles would show up on the radio, and we would get into a screaming match. It was a dog and pony show. It was designed to sell tickets. And he just, you know, he was an integral part of my career. And it started out with me saying, he should die, but

Wendy Mesley  11:53  
you he did die, but anyway, but you didn't kill him.

Rick Mercer  11:59  
He got cancer, and he started writing about having cancer, and I heard he was quite unwell, and so I was doing the show in Vancouver, and I called him up, and I said, I'm taking the subtitle off the show. And he said, Well, why would you do that? And I said, well, because you've written this column that you're dying, and if you die while I'm doing the show, no offense, I'm gonna have posters all over Vancouver saying Charles Lynch must die. And he said, wow, when does your run end in Vancouver? And I said, six weeks. And he said, Okay, I promise I won't die before your run is our so I kept the title. He ended up living for many, many years after that, and then he passed away. And a week or so after he passed away. I was in Halifax. I got a FedEx, and I opened it, and it was the bulletin from his funeral, and attached was a sticky note that said, Rick for your files, regards, which, oh, so he got the last laugh.

Wendy Mesley  12:55  
He touched you too. Maureen, right? Like, like, tell that story about,

Maureen Holloway  13:00  
yeah, Rick touched me. I'm going to tell the story of how Rick touched me. It was a and I don't even know Rick, whether you realize what, what an impact he had. It was about long time ago. It was about 20 years ago, and I got an email from you through the station, that's back when I was at Q, and it was from Rick Mercer, who I didn't know, other than from as a fan, saying, Hey, I just wanted to let you know I really enjoy what you do, and you're very funny. And I was, oh my god, oh my god. I wrote back like, sort of all grovelli and fangirling so much. But you know what, I and then we went on, and I've worked with you, and you've, you know, we've, we've, you've been on another podcast I did, and that's all great, but I got to tell you something that has made me do the same thing. In fact, even a couple of weeks ago, I sent a text or an email to another young broadcaster who I didn't know just to say, Hey, you're really good. I don't know if anybody's told you that, but you're really good, so just keep doing and and it's so easy to do, and it makes such a difference, and you did that for me. So I've been trying to pass that on. I have

Rick Mercer  14:05  
sent fan notes to people I don't know pretty much my entire career, and I think it was inspired by Anne Murray, because Anne Murray sent us a lovely note at this hour's 22 minutes, like week four or five of the show, and it was on stationary, and she had lovely penmanship, and she just said that she was watching the show and really enjoying it. I was like Aunt Murray, but I've always done that, and that's great, but I was a big fan of yours because I was starting to promote things on private radio. And of course, you were going on, you would go on private radio, but you would pop around the country, and you would, I didn't know you were popping around the country until I was out in Calgary, and then you came on and did the same shtick. And I thought, Oh, she's popping all over the country. And you would have, like, six subjects, and you would just, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I was really impressed, because I know how hard that is to be funny at that hour in the morning about six things going on in the country. And, yeah. So that's why I sent it to you, because that was such a great segment on radio. Yeah,

Maureen Holloway  15:04  
it was, well, that's, I built my career on that so, but, I mean, it was just, it makes a huge difference. So I wanted, there's a million things I want to ask you, but you're doing stand up, or you were doing stand up. Yeah, that's the scariest I've never wanted to do stand up. I have such respect for people who do, but coming from the background that you have, which is, you know, writing an improv and so on, to stand up alone in front of a crowd of people, to me, is the bravest thing you possibly could do. Is, what are your feelings on it? It's

Rick Mercer  15:36  
a really stupid occupation. Go out on stage and there's, could be 15 people or 2000 and you, you don't have a guitar, you don't have anything, you just have the microphone. I'm glad I don't have to make a living at it, like it's the only thing I have. I know so many stand ups. I've worked with stand ups my entire life, but I just never was one. I came close. I would host the Gemini awards or something, and that's kind of ish a cousin to stand up. But when I wrapped the Mercy report, I really wanted to give it a shot. I had toured the country once with the Stand Up Show, but I was the host. I would come out, welcome people, and then introduce the next person. And I thought, if I ever do that again, I'm going to do real stand up. And so when the opportunity came along, I said, Yeah, but I'll headline, and that meant doing like, 220 minute sets. And Greg Eckler was a comedian, stand up comedian that I worked with on the mercy report. I said, I'm going to do this. And he was like, Okay, we gotta, we gotta go to the clubs. It was like, Rocky, like they, you know, the old guy, Rocky. That's what we gotta do, rich 1130 at the back of a restaurant, and we would go there to be like five drunk people, and then a couple of other people in the corner that are there to see someone else. And it'd be like nine comedians. And then I would go up do my slot, and then we just kept doing that and doing that and building up a stand up set, and that's how it came about. It's a very different animal than anything I've ever done. It's a lot of fun. And if you do the work and you're prepared, I have certain advantages. I have a built in audience. So it's not like starting out from scratch, but it is a lot of fun. Jerry

Maureen Holloway  17:17  
Seinfeld did the same thing, you know, he after making more money than anybody on this planet has a right to he went back to the clubs. He because he felt this is after the show, after the TV show. He felt that he had to hone his skills again. Oh yeah.

Rick Mercer  17:32  
He went back to the clubs, and he made it his mission that he would create new sets and not repeat a single joke. So that would be like Neil Young saying, I'm going out on the road and not doing anything that I recorded. That's amazing to me.

Wendy Mesley  17:47  
But is it a thing that happens late, later in life, you know, after you've accomplished certain things in your career, like now we're doing a podcast. Who knew we would ever do this, but I don't know. I look at gad Elma who decided, okay, I'm not going to be a French comedian. I'm gonna perform in English, and that didn't work at Eddie Izzard was gonna be running a marathon a day and five stand up shows. Is it something that you've always wanted to do, to do stand up, or is it just a new challenge that you're focusing on now I wonder. No, it

Rick Mercer  18:17  
seemed like the thing to do because I wrapped the TV show all my life. All I ever wanted was my own TV show, and then I got that, which is great, and then I had this tremendous run. But when the show wrapped, I wrapped it on my own terms. So the one thing I didn't want to do was another TV project. I was just done with that. So if there's no TV project, it just seemed like the natural progression to do stand up and I didn't want to go try to be in a play or anything like that, but it was never something that I was desperate to do at all. But it is interesting that, well, like you said, you two are doing a podcast. Now you didn't know that you were doing that a couple of years ago. You have to do something, but people also, they don't really believe you when you're doing something. Like, it's funny when I left television, a lot of people, like, didn't believe that I wasn't canceled. And ultimately, I don't care whether they believe that I left on my own terms or not, but they go, oh yeah, you were canceled. And then if there's no show, they're like, oh well, you're unemployed. It's like, well, it's not that I'm unemployed. I'm just not doing TV anymore. No one ever believes that you step away on your own terms and the stand up. I think they just assume that's something I always did.

Wendy Mesley  19:30  
What about the chats? Because you used to do, you know, I interviewed Prime Ministers your your chats were a lot more memorable for the most part. And it sounded like reading through your book. It sounded like you were kind of fascinated by Jean Chretien, in particular, of all the all the prime ministers that you did gigs with. Yeah,

Rick Mercer  19:48  
we're all a bit fascinated by him. And that's not even an endorsement of him. He was just so good at it. And in fact, I can't stand the notion of career politics. Politicians. I think that it's a real problem, but he flies in the face of that, because he was the ultimate career politician, although he did have a career as a lawyer. But you know, when he became prime minister, he had been Minister of everything, like, you couldn't stop that guy. And most people who run for the job of Prime Minister like, Well, Justin Trudeau, Pierre, poilievre. I mean, they haven't been Minister of it, or maybe Minister of one thing, maybe, whereas Chretien had been Minister of everything. And I think, you know, Chretien keeping us out of the Iraq War, it was only Chretien who could have done that, because I can't even imagine the pressure that the United States brought to bear on Canada. And in fact, I would guess that anyone else in the country, if they were sitting in that chair in the prime minister's office, they would have said, we have no choice. We have to go. And only cre realized, and because of all those years in office and all the all that experience, only he realized, no, we don't, we're not going. So

Wendy Mesley  20:56  
he was extra clever. It sounds like it like you took him to Harvey's, I think, and then realized that he was using you rather than you were using him.

Rick Mercer  21:03  
Oh, for sure. Well, the early 22 minute stuff, it became evident pretty early when the politicians started appearing on the show, that it was what I refer to as mutually parasitic. It absolutely was. They were getting a huge benefit out of it, as were we. And the Chretien thing. The funny thing about Chretien, crenchen agreed to do this Harvey's interview, which was outrageous, because it wasn't like he was going to find five minutes for me in his office. He had to travel to a restaurant. There was a whole setup. I mean, it was a big chunk of his day, an hour and a half or something, which is a lot for a prime minister. And it was on Budget Day. And it was like, he's going to do it on Budget Day, but that's a big day on Parliament Hill. And he said, Oh, yeah, no, I'll do it. And so we did it. And of course there was a photographer there, and they got pictures of us eating burgers together, and it was the Prime Minister's photographer. And of course, then in the afternoon, the budget was released, but it was Paul Martin's budget when he slayed the deficit. And Paul Martin stood up in the House of Commons and slayed the deficit, announced that, you know, all the hard work had paid off. And it was a great celebration. And so in the media, the only thing you know about the day after Budget Day is the front page of every newspaper is going to have the finance minister on it. And of course, that year, they released this photo immediately. And that year, half the newspapers had me and credent burgers, and Paul Martin was on page two. So he was absolutely, he absolutely had an agenda. He was like, I'll say how you get on page one, Paul, but that's, that's all good,

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  22:38  
the women of ill repute.

Maureen Holloway  22:39  
So we're going back to the States. This is something that Wendy and I have even found doing this podcast in the last year. As we've been told, Oh, if you don't get American guests, you're not going to get American listeners, and you're not going to make money, which is not the first and foremost thing that we want to do. But it's ironic, even at this point in our careers, where we're being told that being Canadian isn't going to cut it, unless you don't make it on the American stage, you're not really going to make it. This is something that's probably both plagued you and lifted you up in your career. And what are your thoughts on that?

Rick Mercer  23:13  
Well, everyone who's in my business, they look south of the border, and I don't begrudge them at that. It's the biggest English language entertainment industry in the world. It's right there across the border, and Canadians have always gone down there and always done well. I was just really incredibly fortunate that really early in my career, with 22 minutes, I had the dream job, the notion that I would leave and go try to do something else just never crossed my mind. Because it wasn't like it was a job that I liked a little bit. It was a job I loved, and the subject matter was something I loved, which was Parliament Hill and what, you know, current events. So it just never crossed my mind. And then I later did a sitcom called made in Canada, which, again, was a great opportunity. I was writing it, I was producing it, with my partner, Gerald, and that's when I had the opportunity to go to the states the producers of the weakest link. If you remember, it was a TV show. It was this. It was during the first reality TV show craze. And the weakest link was this huge British hit. They had come to America. It wasn't doing as well as they thought. They had determined that it was the British host that Americans didn't like the British host, and they wanted to replace her, but they wanted to replace her with a non American who could make fun of Americans. And of course, I just started talking to Americans. So they came calling and they said, Well, you know, you'll have to stop doing whatever it is you're doing in Canada. And I had 22 minutes and made in Canada. But I thought about it, because the money was stupid, and it was also going to be easy. You do four a day, and the money was stupid, and I was seriously considering it, and the guy said, We believe you could be the next cat. Sa Jack, who I. I remember thinking, Matt Sajak, that's a really nice life, but I think I'd rather do 22 minutes than be Pat Sajak. And then Gerald, my partner, he said, I'll quote the episode of Mary Tyler Moore, where Ted Knight gets offered a game show and what's his name the bosses. Do you really want to be a game show host Ted? And I thought, No, I don't, I don't want to do that. But did I not have that job? I would have went in the flash. Are you kidding me? The

Maureen Holloway  25:26  
woman on the weakest link, her name was Anne, something, and she was a bitch and a half. I remember that she'd say you are the weakest link. That could have been

Rick Mercer  25:33  
you. That could have been me, yeah, but you did talking to

Wendy Mesley  25:37  
Americans, and you got the call from the head of CBC, saying you had 2.7 million Canadians who watched that show, which is, like, pretty amazing. Even in those days, it was pretty amazing. But why are we so fascinated with that? Like, why? Why do we, I don't know. Why do we so enjoy seeing Americans being made fun of, which is what your show did?

Rick Mercer  25:58  
I know, and I've always struggled with with it. I mentioned in my book that when I did the first segment of talking to Americans, my father, who I adore, never ever talked to me about anything I ever did professionally. And he called me up and he was like, wow. Jerry next door says he loved that talking to Americans thing. And Frank so and so called and wanted to know if you're ever going to do it again. And I said, Dad, you wouldn't believe this thing is exploding. You wouldn't believe how many people are talking about it and private radio stations are airing the clip. And he said, promise me something. And I said, What's that? He said, promise me you'll never, ever do that again. That's that's a terrible thing to do. And then he started going on about how the Halifax explosion, how the Americans sent up all the coats and all the wonderful things of this relationship, and there you are, making fun of the Americans. Of course, I did it non stop for the next two years, but I always felt a little bad about it, and I always thought it was a bit small of us and a bit small of me, that what we were doing, it wasn't inherently fair. I remember Good Morning America, they decided to turn the tables. Ted Koppel aired pretty much the whole special, and he kept calling it a documentary on Nightline for a while. It caused a bit of a sensation in the States, and Good Morning America did a segment on it, and they said, we turn the tables on the people of Canada. And so they sent a reporter up to Toronto and Calgary, and the reporter would go out and say things like, so the President of the United States, John Wayne, says, and like making it all this, of course, everyone in Canada knew, and they never understood why it didn't go both ways. But you know, they're massive, we're small. Why would they know who the Prime Minister is or where Saskatchewan is? That's not their eye suit looking outside their border. But

Wendy Mesley  27:48  
George Bucha eventually made a joke about it, right? Didn't it? Didn't George W Bucha eventually say, because you got him to say, yeah, thanks to the prime minister for the endorsement, Jean Putin.

Maureen Holloway  27:57  
I mean, like, really, Jean poutine,

Rick Mercer  28:01  
yeah. And for years, anecdotally, we heard, of course, everyone in the United States always thought we were associated with news which we weren't. We weren't even CBC employees, but we were on the CBC. But of course, in Washington, they only know the CBC as a news bureau. So for years, anecdotally, we were told that the Bush White House was very hostile towards the CBC and gave them less access than any other Canadian affiliates because of the segment that I did. They thought it had somehow to do with the news, but it was a really crazy fun thing in comedy, if you just stumble upon something that works like that. I won't compare to it, but if you read about SCTV, you know Bob and Doug McKenzie wasn't supposed to be Bob and Doug McKenzie. They were just doing a show, and they were getting grief from their overlords. They weren't doing enough Canadian material, and they had a couple of minutes to kill, and they improv this Bob and Doug McKenzie thing, and it became the most enduring characters ever created and spawned a record album, and that's what it felt like. It felt like riding this wild horse of a comedy idea that was just a mistake, and that led to the 2.7 million viewers. It was It was nuts.

Maureen Holloway  29:12  
It was nuts. Well, comedy also you just, you can't plan it.

Rick Mercer  29:16  
No, you can't. Well, I walked away from it. And every single time that a new person was in charge at the CBC, they would call me up and they'd say, I've got an idea talking to Americans too. I had that conversation nine times,

Wendy Mesley  29:35  
and you did it again, Heather was funny. I don't think I've interviewed you a bunch of times for the news, but I've always stayed away. I mean, everybody knows that that you're gay and that you've been with the same guy for 1000 years, and that's all fine, and who needs to declare their sexuality anyway? I mean, I think we're finally at that stage. You talk so much about Gerald and how you've sort of like, built this life and this profession. Together. And I just, I think it's I just think it's cool that that you talk about in the way that you do well, I

Rick Mercer  30:06  
figured if I was going to do the memoir, I would have to do that, because it is the story. For starters, I wasn't keen on doing a memoir, really. The subject matter kind of bored me. Quite frankly, I would like to write about you or you marine more than me, but I had a job to do, and I've never been comfortable talking about my private life, not because I'm embarrassed by my private life or anything, but anytime. Over the years, if I was doing an interview, I'd do 1000s of interviews promoting things. If someone asked me a question like, What kind of car you're driving, I'd be like, my god, that's awful personal. Or what neighborhood Do you live in? I'm just that kind of person. But when I was telling the story, it's very much, it's a memoir, but it's also a showbiz story. And I love show biz, and I understand that TV in particular is a producer's medium, which is why I wanted to be a producer. But I also believe Gerald is the best producer, and I realized how lucky I was that we first had this personal relationship that grew into a professional relationship, and I had my entire life what I considered the best producer had my back, and he did all the things that you need from a great producer, including dealing with the network and doing the deal. And also he has a great comic mine, and I trust him implicitly, his instincts. So I couldn't write about this career, and then just go. And then I, and then I, and then I, because easily, 50, 60% of the time it was him. He was the one who said you should do this or don't do that. And so it was really important, yeah, to give credit where credit is due. I

Wendy Mesley  31:44  
think that's so important. And I also think it's really important that you say that when you decided to come out, that no one cared, like who cares next? What used to be?

Rick Mercer  31:54  
How many times do you have to come out in this country? I remember extra magazine accused me of not being out, and I had to go into the files and find I was on the cover, like three years previous, talking about being gay, I was on the cover of your magazine. Oh, we didn't know that, but when I started doing rants about bullying, and I never wanted to be an anti bullying activist. I mean, my God, I never, ever saw that on my dance card, but I would do these rants every week, and they would often be, you know, about ironic things in the news, or what's going on and on Parliament Hill. That's infuriating me. But there was this, this young man, Jamie Hubley, who took his life in Ottawa, and he was trying to start a gay straight alliance. This was when, you know, that was quasi controversial in Ontario. He was trying to start a gay straight alliance, and there was a lot of controversy in his school, and he was being bullied and all this. And of course, he ended up tragically, taking his life. And it hit me very hard. S I'm sure it hit everyone very hard. But the exact same story had played out in Toronto, like two years previous. And I thought, my God, in two years, literally, we haven't moved the goal post at all. So I talked about, I did a rant about it, and I talked about visibility, that it was important to be visible because of these young people, they need to be able to say, Oh, you can be a gay cop, you can be a gay cabinet minister. You can be a, you know, that's just or, in my case, you could have a TV show. Because in my life, I tell you, there was this, this moment in my life, when I was, like, 16 years old, I was obviously in the closet. I wasn't suffering or anything, but I was conflicted. This, all this stuff was going on, and I was talking to my friend, Andrew, young husband, and we were in the suburbs where he lived, and he went, do you know who lives there? And I said, No. He said, Carl wells lives there. Now, at the time, Carl Wells was a big deal in Newfoundland. He was the CBC weatherman on here and now, which dominated the evening, supper hour. And Carl was one of those guys. He was everywhere. He was at the old age home. He's down at the Regatta. He's doing the weather. Everyone loved Carl, right? Carl was a big deal. He goes, Carl wells lives there. Of course, I'm obsessed with television, like Carl wells lives there, wow, and Angela goes, Yeah, him and his husband. Mom had them open for drinks, and I said, Carl Wells has a husband. I never even heard anyone use that term, and I remember thinking, Huh, I guess I'll be okay. All right, I can be on TV. Carl Wells is he's got a husband. Lives up in the suburbs. And so I realized that, you know, representation is important. And so I never, ever shied away from but I never thought I'd go down the anti bullying route. But, you know, odd things happen. Well,

Maureen Holloway  34:32  
that's, uh, that affects a lot of people, regardless of their sexuality. And it's interesting. We have a friend, we have a mutual friend all of us, who's gay, who works for another media outlet, and he's out, but I don't, still, you know, respect that he doesn't. He doesn't want it to define him, so I don't want to mention his name in that context, but he talks about his partner all you know, relatively often, and somebody recently sent him an email going, when are you going to come out? You. Don't need to do that anymore.

Wendy Mesley  35:03  
So now what I know you're a political geek. I think you've said you're not going to run for office, but can we get your like politician answer saying no comment or not at this moment, whatever they always say when you ask them,

Rick Mercer  35:16  
I always waited it, Wendy, and I'm sure you're the same way you're covering politics, in my own way, not as a reporter, but as a commentator. You're covering politics, and it's like you're a sports writer, and in the back of your mind, you have this sneaking suspicion that you're going to get the call someday and say, Okay, will you be the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs? And you can Yes, finally. So you always have that thing in the back of your mind where you go like, yeah, maybe I'd give it a shot sometime, but I realize I'm actually less interested now than I ever was. I think it would be very difficult. I don't think I would have the patience, which is a shame. You know the way it works now, with the leader says this, the leader says that. Can you imagine sitting around a table, nodding your head while Justin Trudeau is talking, oh, my God. I mean, I couldn't do that for 10 minutes. Or Pierre poilievre, nothing, or Jagmeet Singh, I have no interest. I don't because I'd be thinking, why are you talking? I know 20 people smarter than you. Can we just get them in there,

Wendy Mesley  36:18  
but that's why you should run. I mean, I know you're not going to and I'm not going to and Lori's not going to, but no, I might. Oh yeah, okay, well, here we go. Let's launch the campaign. No, no, no, no, no,

Maureen Holloway  36:30  
I'm kidding. I just thought it'd be difficult,

Rick Mercer  36:31  
sure, and you could make a difference, you know, but I think it would be, I guess, like when I was spending so much time in Ottawa, you really are inside the bubble. And even though I really try not to get close to anyone you know, you know all this stuff that really is not important, like, you know who in the prime minister's office is involved with who and what power struggles are going on in the prime minister's office and what cabinet ministers are jockeying for position, all this stuff that's just so tedious, but you get kind of sucked into it when you're inside the bubble. I just can't see doing that, although I do think it's funny. I used to say we need more young people now that I'm older. I think, no, it would be good to have more people who've done five or six different things, who've worked for a living. I think that that would be really, you know, that would be very beneficial. And also people who don't have to nod their head and go, Yes, Prime Minister, Yes, Prime Minister, because this is the best job I've ever had, and I'm just I need that second election so I can get the pension. You know, which is the motivation for so many people, which is fine, but it would be nice if it wasn't the motivation for so so many people. My father got involved in politics, probably in his late 60s, maybe even the 70s. He ran for council on outer covid middle code, Logie Bay and where my cabin is. I often think maybe I'll run for council in chapel's Cove.

Maureen Holloway  37:53  
You don't have to live there full time. I got I dipped my toe into municipal politics up where our cottage is, near Parry Sound, and no, I didn't run, but I moderated a town council thing. And yeah, and half the people there don't even live there, so I don't know, put that in your crack pipe and smoke it, because you don't have to spend all your time there, but you do have to put all your interest there and all your effort. So

Rick Mercer  38:14  
there's a woman, woman I bump into every day where my cabin is, and we go for a walk, and she goes for walk and we cross paths, but she has a grabber stick, like one of those four feet sticks with the handle on it. Yeah, I get garbage. And she just, every day for an hour, she picks up garbage, and I keep telling her, you should run. I'll support you. Yeah, you're doing something. You're getting things done,

Maureen Holloway  38:37  
yeah, or maybe we should just all pick up garbage ourselves. I'd admit that's my takeaway from from that story. I

Rick Mercer  38:46  
always feel a little guilty I don't have a bag with me. Sometimes I'll go like, you missed look, there's a chip bag over there. You missed that? Yeah.

Maureen Holloway  38:57  
Rick Mercer, you're a national treasure. You're the I don't know what did we call you? We called you a comedic genius. Comedic genius. That's right. I'm glad you're not running for office, because I much prefer you as an entertainer and as a writer. But thank you for being our first man. We'll always remember you.

Wendy Mesley  39:14  
We've loved talking to you, Rick,

Rick Mercer  39:16  
that's very kind of Thank you.

Wendy Mesley  39:21  
I'm so glad Maureen, that we started with him, that he was our first man.

Maureen Holloway  39:26  
Well, yeah, I mean, just even telling you that story, you getting me to tell that story about how he was so encouraging to me and, I mean, he's just, I said this at the beginning, he's this incredible combination of being a scourge like being scathing about politics and and, you know, low tolerance for stupidity, but blended with this incredible kindness. And you really get the sense that Rick got his moral center from his parents, from his dad in particular. That is a really lovely combination to be aware and to be fearless, but at. The same time to be to be kind. Yeah,

Wendy Mesley  40:02  
I found it really interesting because his Twitter, I checked out his Twitter blog or his Twitter posts, and he identifies himself as anger as my cardio. And I thought that sort of makes sense, but then you read the book, and you're just sort of overwhelmed with his sense of generosity and and bigness of heart and spirit and how even when you can tell that he doesn't really like somebody, he he tries to say things in a nice way, and he loves people so much, I think it's a lovely way to be like, I don't know. Maybe he's not a normal comedian because he had a happy childhood. Yeah,

Maureen Holloway  40:36  
he's not, as we've discovered, comedy doesn't come from a happy place, usually. But I agree. I think he was our perfect man for all those reasons. And, you know, I'd say we should do what we should do more men Wendy.

Wendy Mesley  40:51  
How were we? He's our first

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  40:57  
the women of ill repute with Wendy mesley and Maureen Holloway, available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or at women of ill repute.com, produced and distributed by the sound off media company i.