Pam Anderson: Wild Abandon

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of Ill Repute with your Hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. 

Maureen Holloway  0:05  
Wendy did I ever tell you about an idea I had once for a show that could have been a podcast called Enough About You

Wendy Mesley  0:09  
Oh no. No but do tell. 

Maureen Holloway  0:20  
 I would have famous people on but we wouldn't talk about them. We talk about me like, I'd have like Mick Jagger on and we talk about my high school prom or Meryl Streep would come on and you know, we talked about trips that I've taken or the worst hangover I've ever had. You know enough about you, let's talk about me.

Wendy Mesley  0:39  
Well, I could see why that didn't get greenlit why that that might not take off.

Maureen Holloway  0:44  
Didn't even get lit.

Wendy Mesley  0:47  
But it could be funny. I hear you. And you know, many of our guests on this podcast are not hugely, like worldwide famous, but they all they all have a story like about their prom. 

Maureen Holloway  0:59  
About your prom right?

Wendy Mesley  1:01  
Well, your prom story. Yeah, well, go ahead.

Maureen Holloway  1:03  
I have a prom story, but that's not the case today. Our guest today has a story for sure. She has many stories, but she's hugely famous. I would argue she's probably the most famous person we've had on the podcast. 

Wendy Mesley  1:18  
Yeah, well, she's she's so famous, like globally famous. It's kind of embarrassing, but I will admit, we have been chasing her. I think it's been over a year now. She's super busy, but we finally get to spend some time with her. How embarrassing is that? 

Maureen Holloway  1:34  
Well, okay, it's Pamela Anderson. Everybody. Pam Anderson. Yes, that Pam Anderson actor model bombshell, pin-up, activist mother of two and wife to many.

Wendy Mesley  1:48  
And now she's the producer. She's a writer. She's a gardener. She's a well, I guess she's always been these things, a cook a mom all of these things. 

Maureen Holloway  1:57  
And she's here to talk about me. up I went through a universe.

Wendy Mesley  2:03  
Oh, I'm sure it's interesting. But she's not. I think you got to save that for your other show.

Maureen Holloway  2:10  
But we do have to tell you, sadly, for us that this and for you that this episode is only available in audio form, despite the fact that Pamela has been making waves for appearing in public at Paris Fashion Week, no less with absolutely no makeup. And but despite that, her people did request that we only record the audio portion of our conversation, you get to see us constantly. 

Wendy Mesley  2:35  
Yeah, bbut we don't get to see her, which is kind of too bad. Because she's still she's still quite the visual phenomenon.

Maureen Holloway  2:44  
Yeah. But there's no doubt that it's Pam Anderson as soon as you hear her.

Wendy Mesley  2:48  
And of course, we agreed that we you know, we wouldn't probe into things that she doesn't want to talk about. 

Maureen Holloway  2:54  
The sex tape, we don't go there. 

Wendy Mesley  2:56  
And there's the Pam and Tommy movie not made by her about the sex tape.

Maureen Holloway  3:01  
So that still leaves us a lot. So enough about us.

Wendy Mesley  3:06  
No, I want to hear I want to hear.

Maureen Holloway  3:09  
We got plenty of other opportunities. With no further ado, we are thrilled to welcome Pamela Anderson to the Women Of Ill Repute. 

Wendy Mesley  3:17  
Hi Pamela.

Maureen Holloway  3:25  
Women Of Ill Repute or women who have done things differently, and not always in a popular way. But it's worked out. It defines us and I think defines you too Pamela.

Wendy Mesley  3:35  
Yeah, we've been reading about you. And I mean, it seems like you have a home in Canada now. Which is kind of cool. And we want to talk about that. But I mean, you're making really big changes in your life. You know, you wrote the the autobiography. There was a documentary you're doing the reality show, you got to cook, there's a lot of stuff like what are you up to? Oh, my goodness?

Pamela Anderson  3:54  
What am I not up to? This kind of seems it's kind of inside out or backwards because this is where I'm from, this is who I am. I'm pretty much like all the women that have raised me here, but I went to Los Angeles and kind of became this crazy cartoon character and ran around and I don't even know how I made it back in one piece. But here I am full circle back on the island, safe and sound and doing all the things I've always loved as a little girl. So it's very this childlike kind of enthusiasm. And my sons wanted me to do my memoirs. They really wanted me to write the book. And then they wanted to Brandon produced the documentary because they wanted people to know who I was in their eyes instead of this perception. And so that's how it started. And then me just coming home and renovating my ranch. We thought that would be a fun little TV show just to do with HGTV. We didn't know it was gonna go all over the world and and have all these international buyers and end up on all these different networks. But here we are. So we're doing it. It's just like kind of coming home full circle in real time in front of everybody.

Maureen Holloway  5:01  
It sounds like you're you're renovating or you've renovated your life. And you would describe yourself as a crazy or one time crazy cartoon character. Do you feel that for most of your life, you've been misrepresented. And by saying that you've also maintained that many of these choices were yours to make.

Pamela Anderson  5:19  
I don't know if it was misrepresented or misunderstood. But the thing is, if you don't know anybody's full story, you really can't judge them on the surface and it just became a point where it was just so out of control that I thought I just have, I'm not ever going to try and explain myself, I'm just gonna go with it. This is just who I am, what I'm doing, if I'm an activist, and I'm meeting world leaders, whatever got me in the door, if they wanted to kiss on the cheek, that's fine, as long as we created laws together. So we all got what we wanted, but it's just kind of I started using the kind of the image that I created for things that I felt were important, like animal rights. And then that turned into obviously, like human rights and vulnerable people, I was able to use that celebrity for things that were important to me because I felt like I just can't talk about my boyfriend's and my boobs anymore. I just have to, I gotta talk about something else. Let me just think about it. Okay, animals. Let's do it. 

Wendy Mesley  6:13  
Yeah, it's funny. I was in Paris Fashion Week. It was it was a complete coincidence, but you were there. I mean, you've done so much. I mean, there's the animal rights stuff. There's the books there, but the documentary I mean, Maureen was sort of alluding to it about being misunderstood and that's what Brandon said, was that your son, that's why he made the documentary because you were misunderstood and part of that, I guess, is because boohoo, you're so beautiful. 

Pamela Anderson  6:38  
Oh, God. 

Wendy Mesley  6:39  
But you did this thing, at Paris Fashion Week where you didn't wear any makeup. And it's sort of been seized upon as this great sort of political stand that you've taken? It is it is it really?

Pamela Anderson  6:50  
Not really, but I mean, I guess I always have a little bit of, you know, something up my sleeve, when I do things. But I did that for me, I really looked in the mirror at Paris Fashion Week and I just said, I'm good enough, this way. And it really wasn't a leap of faith and I didn't even know if anyone really noticed, I definitely wasn't trying to make a political statement, but in being authentic, and being who you are, you are making a political statement and there's so many people out there, you know, hiding behind filters, and makeup, and all that kind of stuff. And believe me, I've been into all of it, and done all of it. But I just felt like at this time in my life at this point in my age and everything, I just want to embrace who I am. And I said I'm not into chasing youth. I'm into embracing self acceptance and it's been very freeing. And it really is like, you know, throwing yourself off a cliff. There was times I thought, oh, maybe just a little blush, and maybe some rest. No, nope, not doing it. No, not doing it, and then just just walk out the door. Because I felt like we just keep going back to that and I felt no, and this is why my kids kind of handle any social media. I just don't want any apps on my phone. I just want to live my life as me and if if I can make a living at it this way, sure. This is great, but I can't I just don't want to play that game, unless I'm in a film or doing something playing a character, but I was playing a character every day. And I wanted to peel back the layers and remember who I am and that's been so freeing. And really, I couldn't be happier. I'm happier now than I've been a long time and that's just those small changes. 

Maureen Holloway  8:22  
It's almost like wearing no makeup is the ultimate disguise and a very ironic way. Because when I've seen the pictures of you, I'm like, I would not know that's you and then you look closer and go, but of course that's her. And it makes you look both younger, strangely enough, and more approachable. Do you know what I mean?

Pamela Anderson  8:42  
Well, I've always felt less makeup makes people look younger. My mom even told me a long time ago, she was going to be a time you're not going to want to wear makeup on your face because it sinks into your wrinkles and you know, whatever. It's gonna make you look older and then she looked at me and she goes, and then your neck gonna go and then this is gonna go I'm like Mom, you know? And then you wake up in the middle of the night going, Oh, my God, my neck. You know, she really knows how to like plant a seed that just hits you in the middle of the night.

Wendy Mesley  9:08  
Well, she's living with you now, isn't she? I mean, you've got your kids and your parents I met and I don't mean to like any spoiler alerts on the reality show but the Garden of Eden that like you're building a place for your parents and they move in and you've also got your sons Dylan and Brandon, who are in LA and they've got a home and you're renovating so I just wonder like, parents sons, you got a lot going on. 

Pamela Anderson  9:31  
Yeah, I'm a mother. I've got two grown sons and we're very close and we're always trying to have some fun creative moments together. And so we we created the show and yeah, and they're very involved and I bought this property from my grandparents 30 years ago and I always planned on moving my parents here. They lived in a little cottage in another town, and I they never wanted to leave there but I just felt like it was first of all this property is six acres on the water as a beautiful place and I really bought it for them, so I can have a place here, they can have a place here and I can kind of dip in and out and travel and I know they're safe and happy and just feel like I should be closer to my parents as they get older. And it's so it's worked out and there's definitely was a transitional period where it wasn't easy. I mean two strong women on even six acres is a lot.

Wendy Mesley  10:24  
Yeah, but you're perfect and they're perfect. I'm sure it's it's really easy. We don't have any mother issues.

Maureen Holloway  10:29  
I'm going to write a book one day Pamela is going to be called This Is Not About My Mother. 

Pamela Anderson  10:36  
You know what it's all about the mother. It's crazy. But it was one of the hardest things about writing my book was I didn't want to piss off my mother because I knew I've never heard the end of it. And you know, and even if I even why I feel like I did everything in my power to present her in a way that was you know, respectful everything. She was still angry at every single page I wrote. So yeah, anyway, we got through it and I actually think it was very, it was good, because that generation really doesn't talk about a lot of things that happened in childhood and all the things that we go through. They compartmentalize. And so it was hard, because it brought up a lot of things for both of us, but it was also very healing. But we still now we've stuffed it away again, but we kind of we played with it for a little bit. We talked about it, and then we stuffed it away again, but it's better. It's like one level better.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  11:24  
The Women Of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  11:26  
You as a mother, why are people surprised? And you're not the only one that somebody can be beautiful and sexy and you know, one time bombshell whether you like it or not, you certainly were. Why are people surprised that you can be that and be a good mother. I mean, you and Tommy, you've raised two small groups of wonderful young men.

Pamela Anderson  11:47  
Yeah it's a miracle that could have been a disaster. But, you know, I remember getting home from a photoshoot or Vegas or something really late and then you know being like the mom at the getting the kids out of the car and like really judging people's back seats going, Oh my God, look at the sandwiches. The water bottles are everywhere and then I would shut the door and see my reflection and I was covered in glitter from head to toe. And I thought what do they of me. Just because I'm covered in glitter doesn't mean I'm a bad mom. Just do your best and you do what you can what you can do. And I I had kids to have kids. I didn't want a nanny. I didn't have nannies and I figured it out somehow.

Maureen Holloway  12:22  
Well, here's the question. It's not meant to be offensive at all, but you've been married six times to five man No, five times to four men. Five times to four men. There we go. Yeah, that doesn't make it any better. Sorry. 

No. 

Wendy Mesley  12:36  
Well, I shouldn't talk Marines with the first guy. We call him the current husband. Yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  12:41  
I'm not being smug. I'm just wondering if the institution still holds alure for you? Do you still believe in it? 

Pamela Anderson  12:47  
Well obviously I believe in and I wouldn't keep trying. But yeah, I know. I know. You know, my first husband. I think it really was traumatic for me when that didn't work out. And I think I just kept on trying to fill that void. And for my kids to have a family and I didn't do enough work on myself, I didn't have enough. I wasn't none of those relationships were going to work. They just weren't. So I feel like I've never really taken this time to be on my own and you know, you have to be able to be alone so you can be with other people and not let them define you and you know, there's a lot of work I need to do on myself, obviously, before I meet somebody else. I hope. Or maybe you know, dogs are enough. 

Wendy Mesley  13:26  
I'm allergic to dogs, but everybody else seems to to love them and be quite nurtured by them. So I'm, I know that that you and Tommy Lee, The Motley Crue guy that he is the father to your kids that he was seeing this like a big deal in your life. And it's great to grow older and it's great to have memories, but you still love him and Canada loves you. So it was funny. I didn't realize that you were you were like a centennial, baby. You were born on Canada Day. 

Yeah. 

I was born on America day or whatever. July 4, which is top secret. Don't tell anyone too late now. But you are embraced by Canadians and I think they'll be really happy to hear that, that you're back. And so do you feel the same way at all about Canada, the way that Canada or Canadians who follow you love you? 

Pamela Anderson  14:13  
Well, I love that I'm Canadian. And I think it's the only way I survived. Being in Los Angeles or being in that world at all is because I had a good foundation good roots here on Vancouver Island. It really was my sanctuary always. I always came home to kind of plug in refuel lie in the middle of the field, watch the stars, those trees have known me since birth and to just be close to this place is what you know, kept me alive, probably. So I'm just grateful and I love working with a lot of I'm working a lot with Canadian companies. That's why I did this Canadian TV show. I didn't realize all these international buyers were going to buy the show and it'd be everywhere. I really was just wanting to kind of do something local, do something with Canadian production company and work with different companies in Canada because I am a true Canadian island girl and very proud of it?

Maureen Holloway  15:03  
You sound very happy. Are you happy? I mean, we often look back and go, I was happy then. And we very rarely appreciate happiness when we're experiencing it. Are you happy?

Pamela Anderson  15:14  
I am happy now. And I was happy then 25 years ago, and in between, I think I really struggled. When I had my kids and I was had my family unit together, I was really, really happy. And you know, it's really hard for me, I haven't watched the documentary in its entirety, because I started to watch it and I just fell apart because I know I hear my voice and I see myself and I see my mannerisms and I realized I was very free. I was very happy. I was very in love. And just then the rest of it was just really, really hard until I came home and did the work and just really sat with my feelings. I did a lot of writing, you know, writing my memoirs, and doing documentary was very therapeutic. And I feel like I'm back again and everything in between. I don't really even remember what happened. I know I raised kids. That's the part I remember. But the other stuff I couldn't I mean, I couldn't tell you. 

Wendy Mesley  16:06  
Well, we are so happy that you're happy. I mean, that sounds really sucky. But it's so true on I love somewhere I read that Jane Fonda once said to you, don't let them do to you what they did to me and you're not like you are like seizing things again. You are, you had like a miserable period that sounds like in your life, but it sounds like you're seizing control, which is kind of cool.

Pamela Anderson  16:28  
It's been a journey. It's been a journey. And like I said, Now I know I really feel. Yeah, I spoke at Oxford, about you know, romance and about Cambridge about veganism. And I feel like people come up to me and they go and you're not like a religious leader. You're, you know, you're not a political figure, but we relate to you. We want to hear your feelings and how you got through things, or what do you think about sensuality? And so I'm really in a lucky place. Because now that I've had this life experience, you know, hardship qualifies and I feel like I actually have something to say now. So it's really been fun.

Maureen Holloway  17:02  
Well, I've got one more question for you. You've you've been known for better for worse for being wildly spontaneous. Sure. You could be wise, you know, but there's something to be said for wild abandon as well. Have you completely abandoned your wild abandon?

Pamela Anderson  17:18  
No, of course not. That's what makes me tick. I mean, this is why I didn't wear makeup at Fashion Week. That's really crazy. You know, kind of play the opposite game when you're on Paris Fashion Week and I had you know, Anna Wintour sitting right across from me videotaping me on her phone. At Victoria Beckham was fashion show and I was peeing my pants. I was like, Oh my God. But that feeling of fear and doing it anyway, is my drug of choice. I just love it. I just love to push myself in places that are uncomfortable. And I will I shouldn't say I never regret it. I mostly never regret it.

Wendy Mesley  17:55  
Well, there's always I think someone actually saying about it. There's always regrets in life. But we are really happy that you're in Canada. We're really happy that you've kind of figured some stuff out. 

Pamela Anderson  18:06  
Yeah, well, yeah, I'm doing okay. I'm doing great. But you know, just throw me in the garden when I'm getting out of control. 

Maureen Holloway  18:12  
Wendy and I have interviewed all sorts of famous people. We're just thrilled to talk to you.

Pamela Anderson  18:18  
It was nice to meet you. 

Maureen Holloway  18:19  
Nice to meet you as well. 

Wendy Mesley  18:20  
Nice to meet you, too. Yeah. Good luck with all the projects. 

Pamela Anderson  18:24  
Bye.

Maureen Holloway  18:28  
All right. I know what you're gonna say.

Wendy Mesley  18:30  
She was lovely.

Maureen Holloway  18:35  
That voice is so I'm so iconic, right? You know, you could identify it anywhere. And it's funny. It occurred to me telling some people today I had to rush back to do this interview that I was like, oh, we're talking to Pamela Anderson today.

Wendy Mesley  18:50  
Oh, just Pamela Anderson. 

Maureen Holloway  18:53  
Whether you're 12 years old, or 40, male, female, gay, straight when everybody was like, wow, she's like, she's seriously famous right?

Wendy Mesley  19:03  
I find it really interesting that she's trying to say that, like it was really difficult. Like she fell in love and she had these kids and she was a sex symbol, and she liked sex and she kind of got taken advantage of by people. And as her son says she was misunderstood, but it's so but then she's so beautiful. You look at her and you go, oh, really? Oh, really. You've had a hard time, but she has been well, she says she's not a victim. She's a survivor, but she also says don't feel sorry for me. I've made these choices and some of it was kind of shitty. 

Maureen Holloway  19:31  
You know, being extremely beautiful. As you and I both know.

Wendy Mesley  19:35  
Yeah, we're natural beauties.

Maureen Holloway  19:37  
Being extremely beautiful can it carries a burden on some people like oh, cry me a river, you know, I'd like to have that burden being extremely ugly. Also carries a far worse burden. People are nicer to more attractive people. I mean, that's just a fact and whether it's fair or not, is not for you made to determine, but that being said she was, is beautiful is beautiful, but why is beautiful and sexy and a blonde bombshell at a time where women who looked like that were treated accordingly. Like nobody gave women who looked like Pamela Anderson much of a chance to do anything else but be sexy. She was naive, and she came out of BC she's 22 years old, she had no experience, bam, next thing you know, she's on in Playboy, and then Baywatch and, you know, it was probably, you know, a very difficult time and some terrible things happened to her. That's just because that's the way things were, and still aren't a lot of places. 

Wendy Mesley  19:37  
I found it really interesting that she talked about, she talked about her mother and not wanting to piss off her mother in the documentary or in the reality series. And we've all had, you know, we were raised by strong women, we've all got mother issues, but there was something that really struck me just reading up about her and preparation for the for this chat was that her mother when she was a kid said there's no such thing as natural beauty. You have to spend like an hour and you're doing your makeup and do it. So there was all of this pressure, all of these sorts of old ideas, but she loves her mother and we all love the old ideas. 

Maureen Holloway  21:12  
Breast implants, right? She was they were kind of forced upon her as well. I mean, when she was discovered, as it were, it was like, well, your boobs should be bigger. So you know, that's probably in keeping because it's all disguise. Isn't it, Wendy? The a wig or eye makeup or, you know, when? Lily James played her we didn't talk about that Pam and Tommy movie because she did not approve. Pamela herself did not approve it. When Lily James played her she had to have a full prosthetic to like a whole breast plate chest thing, so that she could resemble Pamela I mean if that isn't the ultimate disguise 

Wendy Mesley  21:49  
Yeah, I think I read somewhere that she didn't that Pamela didn't even want to watch it the Pam  and Tommy documentary because it was about the sex tape and it was about the love of her life and it was and it was not her it was somebody else telling her story which is but you know what I really wanted to ask her nothing about the sex tape and-

Maureen Holloway  22:05  
What was it?

Wendy Mesley  22:07  
I wanted to ask her what it's like to have a big forehead?

Maureen Holloway  22:13  
I thought you were gonna ask her about Tommy Lee who also has a big forehead wink, anyway I had a thing for him for a long time too. I love it back in my saying where I had for bad boys that's I'm not alone in this it's a it's a dangerous preoccupation. I have one more question for you. Why don't you want anyone to know your birthdays on July 4?

Wendy Mesley  22:34  
It's on Wikipedia, like 20 years ago they said that my my birthday was in January it's not in January but I didn't change it because everything was I don't know I just thought Wikipedia is so ridiculous in some ways even though I you know I check it out obviously when we're about to do somebody yeah so I don't want anyone to know that my birthday is July 4 please send flowers.  

Maureen Holloway  22:58  
You're a complicated woman you know that. 

Wendy Mesley  23:05  
I gonna do a reality show only I don't think I'm gonna get global right somehow.

Maureen Holloway  23:11  
All right, Pam Anderson, who's next maybe we will get you know Mother Teresa and the Pope.

Wendy Mesley  23:16  
Mother Teresa's dead well which Pope Pope. Any pop will do.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  23:21  
Women Of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer yet Jet Belgraver.