Michaela Watkins: Late Bloomer

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of Ill Repute. With your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. 

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
So Wendy, this is what happens when you tell someone you're going to be talking to Michaela Watkins. They say, who? And you say Michaela Watkins. She was on SNL, she was in The Dropout, the movie about Elizabeth Holmes. She played Rob Delaney's sister in Catastrophe. She's in You Hurt My Feelings with her doppelganger, Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Wendy Mesley  0:27  
Yeah, well, and there's more, right? Go on.

Maureen Holloway  0:30  
Well, and then you show them her picture and they go, oh, her! I love Michaela Watkins.

Wendy Mesley  0:35  
Yeah, well, we love her. And she's kind of familiar when you see her face. She's kind of funny. So we- yeah, we do know her.

Maureen Holloway  0:42  
She plays a lot of best friends. And I know that Joanna Schneller, who writes for The Globe and Mail, who's been on the show- What did she say? She said, Michaela projects much-needed sister energy.

Wendy Mesley  0:52  
Yeah, like a sister as in best friend. 

Maureen Holloway  0:54  
Yeah. 

Wendy Mesley  0:55  
So not all sisters are like that. But she plays a lot of best friends, I think. Michaela, she's a single perimenopausal mom- 

Maureen Holloway  1:02  
Well, she plays one. I mean, and she may be one.

Wendy Mesley  1:06  
Well, I'll have to ask her about that. Yeah, I was perimenopausal for about a week and then- that's what chemo does to you. Anyway, plays a perimenopausal mom whose daughter goes off to university. I kind of identified with that. But she leaves her to look after her ex boyfriend. And it was shot in Hamilton!

Maureen Holloway  1:27  
Yeah, which makes Michaela practically Canadian.

With no further ado, welcome our almost-Canadian perimenopausal sister, Michaela Watkins. Hi, Michaela. 

Michaela Watkins  1:43  
Hello, that was very, very funny.

Maureen Holloway  1:46  
Well talk about confusing actors for the roles they play.

Michaela Watkins  1:50  
There's a lot of crossover, let's just say that. I'm not a mom. But I'm the world's busiest aunt and godmother. And I'm not single, but I was raised by a single mom. So- and I was going through menopause when we were shooting the movie, but like a sudden version of menopause.

Wendy Mesley  2:09  
We sort of joke about you being sort of the underappreciated person. But here, you're like the lead character, like the movie for you.

Michaela Watkins  2:16  
Yeah, in a weird way, it was written for me, because that's who Lindsey Stewart and Dane Clark had in mind for their Suze. And sometimes when that happens, and you read a script, you're like, ugh, I don't know. But this one, we do. This one, love. By the time usually I get the script where somebody has written it for you, or for the lead role, let's just say, it's because somebody else turned it down. And there's probably a reason they turned it down. 

Maureen Holloway  2:43  
Really?

Michaela Watkins  2:45  
And so with this, it was just uniquely both written with me in mind. And nobody had turned it down, because I was the first to read it. And I was very, very excited about it.

Maureen Holloway  2:56  
Are you not the executive producer? 

Michaela Watkins  2:58  
Yeah. I mean, but that's- that came with playing the part. 

Maureen Holloway  3:03  
So it's a Canadian production. It was shot in Hamilton, it stars local actors. We're Canadian, and we- we're very self effacing. We always want to hear other people tell us what an amazing experience it was and how great Canadians are.

Michaela Watkins  3:19  
Is this where I come in?

Maureen Holloway  3:19  
Yes, where you come in.

Wendy Mesley  3:21  
From Americans, yes, please. 

Michaela Watkins  3:22  
Okay, well, I have no notes. Everybody was lovely. The food could have been a lil' better. No, I'm kidding. I would have to talk to the executive producer about that. It was just lovely. I mean, great people, the crew was so nice. Lindsey and Dane are my kind of writer/directors, they just really are so prepared. They don't take anything for granted, and they know that they have this shot to do this. And they've thought about every aspect of it through and through. So it never felt like any scene was arbitrary, or any moment felt arbitrary, especially when I watched it. And I felt like this really edited right together. It's because they were constantly thinking about- they were never resting on laurels or on false exceptionalism. They were just always humbled and hardworking and clear and collaborative. Same with the rest of the cast. Same with the crew. Our AD, Aidan Shipley, most wonderful AD. I hate to even say his name, because if anybody works in film listening to this, they're going to beat you up for him because he's the best. 

Maureen Holloway  4:38  
High praise.

Michaela Watkins  4:39  
When you have a low budget film, and you have a great AD that keeps the film on its tracks- and we only had 21 days to shoot this whole film- and never loses his cool or yells at anybody, or is snarky or sharp? That is a talent. I mean, that is a skill and a talent.

Wendy Mesley  4:59  
So do you get- this is such a stupid question, but do you get recognized now? Like, I used to read the national news and someone once came up to me and said, hey, your whats-her-name from the thing. Which was sort of how I saw myself. But now you're like the big lead.

Michaela Watkins  5:15  
Yeah, I mean, hopefully this gets a distribution in the US it will get into more households. I've starred on shows, you know, a bunch of times. I just- not movies, which is interesting. Usually I play much more character roles in movies or sidekicks. And so this is nice. But this feels like a movie version of the kind of shows I like to do and the kind of movies I like to see. But it does feel like it would speak to my- the audiences that hopefully I have, but maybe more audiences who just don't know that somewhere out there is a movie that is about this kind of relationship, that is just a really unique relationship. And it's like- almost like a- it's almost like a romantic comedy in a way. But not like one anybody's ever seen before.

Maureen Holloway  6:02  
Between you and the boyfriend who gets left behind. 

Michaela Watkins  6:05  
The daughter's boyfriend. Yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  6:06  
Yeah, it's buddy comedy in a way too. Yeah, buddy. 

Michaela Watkins  6:09  
Yeah, buddy comedy, romantic comedy. I don't know how you want to call it. But you know, there- it's about this relationship. Yeah. 

Wendy Mesley  6:14  
Yeah, I found it particularly interesting, the- your daughter goes away, my daughter went away. And it was all- you know, I'd call her all the time. And I would say, Oh, hi, hi, honey. And that's what you do in the film is like- but the film is about realizing that there is life beyond the kid that goes off to school. It's like looking after yourself. So did you always? 

Michaela Watkins  6:37  
Yeah. I mean, it's funny you say that, because I think the film deals with so many themes of abandonment, you know? There's a moment where Gage says to Suze, well, he has- I'm gonna butcher this but like, you know, we have a lot in common or something. And she says, oh, yeah, like what? And he's like, we were both abandoned by the same person, meaning Suze's daughter. And I realized that Suze was abandoned by her husband and ex husband. And so was her daughter. So they share that. And then Suze abandoned herself. I mean, she completely abandoned herself. And Gage did the big act of abandoning himself at one point, and was about to do it again. And so this really is about abandonment. But boy, is it a funny movie also.

Wendy Mesley  7:23  
Yeah, sounds really funny. 

Michaela Watkins  7:25  
I know. It doesn't sound it, does it?

Maureen Holloway  7:27  
But it is! It is.

Michaela Watkins  7:28  
It really is.

Maureen Holloway  7:28  
At least the trailer's very funny. Michaela, I feel that a lot of roles- some of the most interesting roles for women, particularly women of a certain age, go to your pal Julia Louis-Dreyfus. And it's funny, because you're very- you've- there was an article in Vanity Fair on how alike you are. And you are, you are good friends, aren't you?

Michaela Watkins  7:50  
We are now, yeah, because we just played sisters. And we get along like gangbusters, which helps when you're friends with somebody, but you like them. And we- we like each other a lot. She's somebody- I mean, I feel silly, because she's somebody I've just always wanted to work with. And I just adore her, and I think she's so funny. And I think she's so kind, and so smart. And I love her taste. And we have a lot in common. So I was right about that. Sometimes you don't want to meet the people that you really look up to, and you know, want to model your career after, but in this case, she's maybe the exception that proves the rule that you shouldn't meet your hero- I don't know, I don't know how to finish that sentence. But I will say that she is as dreamy as you would think she would be.

Maureen Holloway  8:36  
Yeah, she's our dream girl, for sure.

Wendy Mesley  8:39  
It's amazing how many people love her. So it's nice to hear from you that maybe she's worth it. But I'm fascinated by the theme of that movie, which is, I guess, a very fundamental thing in relationships, which is that she overhears her husband saying that he actually hated her book. 

Maureen Holloway  8:56  
Oh, you're talking about You Hurt My Feelings now. Yeah. 

You Hurt My Feelings. So the movie with Julia Louis-Dreyfus that you were in. And I just wondered, and now you- you love your husband, so- but does he tell you the truth? Does he actually say well, you actually really sucked in that? Not that you ever did, of course.

Michaela Watkins  9:12  
I hope he tells me the truth. I hope he's been telling me the truth. When I think about it, I'm like, how could he possibly? And he's very- not a good liar either. So I feel like maybe he's telling me the truth. I think he- what he does well is he finds ways to tell me the truth in a not-hurtful way. I think overhearing your husband say that they hate your latest book like happens in the Nicole Holofcener movie, You Hurt My Feelings. I think that is very hurtful, and awful, especially- I think it's the betrayal that you didn't tell her he didn't like it, it's that he kept saying that it was good. And he lied to her to be encouraging. And I think that sounds like a kind thing to do, but in the end, it was more hurtful than anything else, because- and then it caused her great insecurity, because if he's willing to lie, what else is he lying about in terms of her work? And with my husband, he's not an actor. He's not in entertainment. And he did not know how to talk to an actor after a very vulnerable performance of something. And we- I think we had a tiff one time, early in our relationship, because he came to see something and he said to me, he goes, well- I said, so what'd you think? And I was very insecure about the performance. It was a live show. And he said, you know, I didn't hate it. And I was like, you didn't hate it? You didn't HATE IT!? We're already at you didn't hate it? We're going to start there and go from there? And he was like- he was so confused. But why he was confused was because I kept telling him, I'm not that good. I'm not that good in it, meaning that he's supposed to- I'm preparing him to be very disappointed so that when he sees it, he doesn't think it's the worst thing. And what he was saying to me was no, I'm saying I didn't hate it. Like you said I was gonna hate it. I'm saying I didn't hate it.

Wendy Mesley  11:03  
So he was being supportive.

Michaela Watkins  11:06  
He was being supportive. I didn't hate it. But yeah, it didn't go over great.

Wendy Mesley  11:10  
Yeah, I remember the first time I filed for the national news, which to me was like a huge thing. And the person said, yeah, it's fine.

Maureen Holloway  11:17  
It was a huge thing, Wendy. 

Wendy Mesley  11:18  
They said, it's fine. And I'm like, fine? It's fine? Couldn't you say I didn't hate it?

Michaela Watkins  11:25  
Yeah, you say it's fine to somebody, you might as well say you hated it.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  11:32  
The Women of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  11:35  
We're all performers of different styles and insecurity is part of- it's an occupational hazard, I think. And I'm gonna go way back and ask you about your brief- all too brief, because you were two seasons on Saturday Night Live? 

Michaela Watkins  11:48  
One. Briefer. Briefer than my briefs. Yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  11:51  
Really? But there's some fine, fine people who've only put a year in there. 

Michaela Watkins  11:56  
I was the bikini cut of SNL people. 

Maureen Holloway  11:59  
That must have been brutal, though, because it's just such a pinnacle for so many people.

Michaela Watkins  12:04  
Yeah, I mean, it's a double-edged brutal, because on the one hand, you're like, wow, I got to do the thing. On the other hand, you're like, but I didn't get to do it very long.

Maureen Holloway  12:14  
Jenny Slater was only there briefly. I mean, there are some good people that came through and came out the other end and went on to other things. So it's- it's a badge of honor. Still.

Michaela Watkins  12:24  
Yeah. I mean, I think in retrospect, you know, I was there probably the right amount of time. I like all the things I got to do after, especially meeting my husband, but I don't know if I would have if I stayed there. And he's my- my favorite role. You know, being married to him, is what I mean. But I enjoyed it very much. I was older than any other female cast members ever were at that point. And I think it's one thing to be on the show in your 20s. And I think it's a very different thing to be on the show in your late 30s, starting, because it's not a typical show. And it operates in a very different way than the way I'm used to, which is- I think it comes from the top, I think there's sort of- there's a tension there. That is not, I don't think, the most conducive to creativity. But I didn't mind it, you know, I was willing to go along to get along. But in retrospect, it probably wouldn't have been the greatest environment for me, because I- I'm definitely one of those people that thrives in positivity.

Wendy Mesley  13:34  
Yeah, well, positivity is so important. It's making me think about how, you know, I've done some public speaking and people say that confidence is the most important thing, and- and it is, you have to feel confident. So I don't know whether you're more confident in your 20s or in your 30s when you're on SNL, or whether you get more confident when you get older.

Michaela Watkins  13:55  
For me, it's when I get older. I did not have confidence when I was younger.

Maureen Holloway  13:59  
You know what doesn't disappear with age, is being funny. You know, funny people stay funny to the end.

Michaela Watkins  14:04  
They just get funnier if you ask me.

Maureen Holloway  14:08  
They smell funnier. I know that. So yeah, you've found- especially in the last year, because you've been so busy. Probably busier than you ever have been in your career, unless I'm mistaken.

Michaela Watkins  14:20  
No, I've not been busy. We've been on strike the whole year. 

Maureen Holloway  14:24  
Oh, I mean- yeah, there's that. 

Michaela Watkins  14:25  
This is like the least busy I've ever been. 

Maureen Holloway  14:28  
The year before that. Because you had three- three movies come out.

Michaela Watkins  14:32  
Yeah, I was on a roll. I was on a crazy roll, where it was back to back to back to back to back. And even with this movie, Suze, we were shooting the sex scene or whatever. And we had to shoot it so fast because I had to get on the next flight out of Toronto to make it back to Los Angeles to fly to England for five months the next day.

Wendy Mesley  14:56  
So do you have tricks to make it happen? The sex scene? To make it happen really quickly. 

Maureen Holloway  15:03  
I'm yet to see the movie. Who has sex? It's not you and Gage. 

Michaela Watkins  15:07  
No, I'm not telling you who's having sex or not having sex or trying to have sex, or whatever sex. 

Wendy Mesley  15:13  
Or the tricks. 

Michaela Watkins  15:14  
The tricks are- you know, nobody, no actors want sex scenes to shoot for long. You're always like, alright, let's wrap this up. Let's go. 

Maureen Holloway  15:23  
You both have ADHD. 

Wendy Mesley  15:26  
Oh, dear. 

Maureen Holloway  15:27  
Well, you put that in your notes. I'm looking at Wendy's notes here. And is that true, Michaela?

Michaela Watkins  15:32  
That is 100% true.

Maureen Holloway  15:34  
I'm trying to get your attention.

Michaela Watkins  15:36  
I know. I'm sorry. What was the question?

Maureen Holloway  15:40  
How does that impact- I mean, I could ask you this, too, Wendy, but I know how it impacts you.

Michaela Watkins  15:45  
I just want to say that you are very- Maureen, you are very, very brave to partner up with an ADHD person in a business venture.

Maureen Holloway  15:53  
Oh, I know.

Wendy Mesley  15:55  
Hey! 

Maureen Holloway  15:55  
I know. 

Michaela Watkins  15:57  
You're like, I'm right here! Yes, Wendy, you are. But I speak for- I speak for Maureen.

Wendy Mesley  16:03  
Well, let me tell you about Maureen.

Maureen Holloway  16:07  
I have my own issues. Of course I do.

Wendy Mesley  16:09  
ADHD- I mean, it's fascinating, because I don't know, I find everybody else really slow. But other people find that I have trouble, like, focusing on certain things for a long time. So I'm just wondering what it's been like for you suffering from- well, or enjoying ADHD?

Michaela Watkins  16:30  
Well, I think I'm in the right career. You know, I think being an actor is the exact sweet spot for someone with ADHD, because we don't have that thing that keeps us from wandering into all the other little imaginative rooms in our head. And we'll just think like, what if, what if, what if, you know, and sure it makes you a little anxious. And sure, it makes you a little- catastrophic thinking can happen. But you know what, it makes us interesting and fun people to hang out with. Do we tell a story for way too long? Yeah. Do we lose our keys while doing it? 20 times, but at the end of the day, we can like completely microfocus like nobody's business.

Wendy Mesley  17:16  
So now is when I get to tell you about Mo?

Oh, what about me? What about me? I'm the opposite of ADHD. I'm hyperfocused.

Yeah.

Maureen Holloway  17:24  
I do like telling a story though. And I was reading about you, and most of your stories are usually told over- or you prefer to tell them over a few drinks. And I have actually, and Wendy's witnessed it, been in the middle of the story and completely lost- I've lost everybody. But I got to keep going. Cause you can't just stop, right? You can't just say, alright I'm out of here. You gotta soldier through. You got to find your end, and then everyone's like, whatever. That's because you're all ADHD, you weren't focused on me. You told a story that made me laugh out loud while I was reading about it, about getting a lip peel or something before you had an audition. 

Michaela Watkins  17:58  
A lip wax, yeah, I just talked about it today. That's so funny. My friend said to me- friends, they're great. I love my friends. But one friend said to me right before I was about to do my first TV job, you know, oh, you know you've got a little peach fuzz on your- like a mustache, you should probably get that waxed. Nobody ever told me I had a mustache. I don't have a mustache. But she just kind of caught it. I don't know why. And I went and got it done. And they burnt the hell out of me. They burnt the Holy Christ out of my face. And I went to go to work on my first TV job, and I'm explaining to the makeup artists that I don't have some horrible STD, that I have just like this- this open wound on my- on my lip is from third degree burns. I don't think she believed me.

Wendy Mesley  18:45  
Well, now, I'm looking carefully. I don't see any mustache.

Michaela Watkins  18:48  
Well I- because I don't have one. I don't have one. I never did. But she made me nervous. And I felt like well, if I'm going to be on TV, and the TV picks up everything, you know, that whole gambit.

Maureen Holloway  19:00  
The things we do. I had an eyebrow wax once where she ripped off, same story, and she just pulled off my skin. And I was pretty sure that she had, and she just sort of went, oh, and then left. 

Michaela Watkins  19:14  
Left? 

Maureen Holloway  19:15  
Well, she had to go to something else, and it didn't come out until later. Right? Like it- like I could feel it. And then when I- by the time I got home, you could see that she had torn off the skin. And I was too- you know, I'm Canadian. I wasn't gonna tell anybody. 

Michaela Watkins  19:26  
I was very Canadian in how I responded, too. 

Maureen Holloway  19:29  
You paid. You paid for that. 

Michaela Watkins  19:30  
I paid and I thanked her.

Wendy Mesley  19:32  
That is very Canadian. Michaela, you've been great. And I'm glad that you're not just the- underappreciated. You're like the star of the show. So it's-

Michaela Watkins  19:41  
Thank you. 

Wendy Mesley  19:41  
Yeah, yeah, it's great. 

Maureen Holloway  19:44  
Suze. It looks fantastic. We have to see it, if only to find out who doesn't or does have sex, but you are a delight.

Michaela Watkins  19:51  
Go to the theater to find out who does or doesn't have sex, but stay for the- for the good story.

Maureen Holloway  19:56  
Okay, we will. Thank you. 

Michaela Watkins  19:58  
Thanks for having me. I hope you Have a wonderful sunny day here in Toronto.

Wendy Mesley  20:05  
So Maureen, you actually lost internet or something like halfway through? That was so weird.

Maureen Holloway  20:09  
Yeah, I did. But when you listen back to this, that will have been fixed. But there was a moment where you guys were frozen. And I mean, we have technical problems, you wouldn't know it because we sound so smooth and professional. But yeah, that happens. And for the record, I am the technician on this- this little production. Which-

Wendy Mesley  20:28  
Well, you're a wizard, you're a technical wizard.

Maureen Holloway  20:30  
I am the last person who should be doing that. But anyway, better me than you, because you're ADHD and you wouldn't be able to keep all the balls in the air.

Wendy Mesley  20:37  
Well, who knew, yeah. And minor, minor, minor minor.

Maureen Holloway  20:40  
Do you know what you do that I think is kind of endearing? And this kind of reminds me of my kids. And it has to do with ADHD. Not that my kids have- have that. They- you think I know what you're thinking. And I do. That's the scary thing. You'll mention something out of the blue. And I'll kind of know how you got there. I mean, that's from doing the show with you and spending time with you. But I think it's kind of sweet, but it's also- until I realize that, you know, don't you find I say to you a lot, Wendy, what are you talking about?

Wendy Mesley  21:10  
Yeah no, it's something that people have said to me over time. She's fascinating. 

Maureen Holloway  21:14  
Yeah, she is. 

Wendy Mesley  21:15  
What I wanted to talk to her- and I-  you realize this after the fact. She says that she's an empath and can't watch horror movies. And me too. Like I always want to- well did- did Beth marry Joe in the end? And Liam is like-

Maureen Holloway  21:29  
Is that a horror? Is that a horror movie? 

Wendy Mesley  21:31  
No, no, no, but it's like, you don't- you don't get to know what happens, because it's not real life, it's TV, and I'm like, oh. So I didn't know that that was what an empath is. But apparently.

Maureen Holloway  21:42  
I thought an empath was somebody who just felt things strongly. 

Wendy Mesley  21:45  
Well, that's what I thought. 

Maureen Holloway  21:46  
Really? But an empath, according to this, is someone who doesn't distinguish between romance and horror.

Wendy Mesley  21:53  
Yeah. Yeah, that's just me. Well, let's blame it on the ADHD.

Maureen Holloway  21:58  
Alright, we've been all over the place today, but Michaela Watkins is a just a delight. And she's a fantastic actor. And the movie is called Suze. And it's coming soon to a theater near you, and I've only seen the trailer, but the trailer looks fantastic. A lot of great Canadian actors in there, too. So, you know, get out there and see it. 

Wendy Mesley  22:19  
Yes, ma'am.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  22:21  
Women of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley, with the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.