Ivy Le: Indoorswoman

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women Of Ill Repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. 

Wendy Mesley  0:07  
So hey Maureen, you're you're kind of outdoorsy, aren't you? 

Maureen Holloway  0:10  
I'm yeah, no, it depends on the outdoors. I like doing some things outdoors, you know, like outdoorsy things like walking and hiking and golfing. All those things have to be done outdoors. Sailing is definitely outdoors, skiing and cycling. But, you know, I'm such a, what is it called a blue sky or a fairweather, outdoorsy person? I'm a snowflake. I don't like getting cold. I like a snowflake who doesn't like the cold. You are outdoorsy, you're- 

Wendy Mesley  0:41  
No, no, no I beg to differ a little bit, because I've seen you in a canoe. So I'd say you're you're pretty sporty. But yeah, I am. I like even when it's not a blue sky. I like it. And now that I have more time because I'm sort of semi retired just doing a podcast just 23 hours a week. I am trying to indulge my true loves which are skiing and windsurfing and I do that in bad weather although nobody really wind surfs anymore, so let's pretend and call it foiling which is oh boy, everybody I foil. 

Maureen Holloway  0:41  
There's a difference though between sporty and outdoorsy. They're not necessarily the same thing. Like I love the outdoors. But I do not like camping. 

Wendy Mesley  1:20  
I love camping. And I actually, while my husband won't go I went with my mom on a trip on the Inca Trail in Peru and we slept on the ground but I I had I will confess I had to take along my special pillow- 

Maureen Holloway  1:33  
You had your special pillow? Okay. 

I

Wendy Mesley  1:35  
And my noise machine. 

Maureen Holloway  1:36  
Oh, well, that's not. That's not camping. It's like I went camping in the Sahara Desert is glamping and we had a whole Berber tribe that would serve us meals on silver. I mean sure we were in the middle of the Sahara, but that's not really camping. Not you and your mom not camping. No. 

Wendy Mesley  1:55  
Well, I was camping as far as I was concerned, but my husband wouldn't call it camping. So yeah, no. 

Maureen Holloway  2:00  
Well, either way, neither of us suffer from FOGO. 

Wendy Mesley  2:04  
FOGO?

Maureen Holloway  2:05  
Yeah it's like fear of it's like FOMO but it's fear of going outside instead of fear of missing out and it's also a podcast it's a podcast about the outdoors for people who don't necessarily like the outdoors

Ivy Le  2:20  
My family came to America as refugees from Vietnam because my father had a bounty on his head by the communist government. So generally speaking, my kind of people only go into the woods if we're being shot at. I'm Ivy Lee and this is FOGO, fear of going outside. A Spotify Sound Up series. FOGO is a nature show with the most reluctant host ever, which isn't saying much because most nature shows are hosted by reckless white men. 

Narration  2:48  
'I mean, I would do anything to just not be right here. Hey, now that bad for you. Girl I feel you.'

Wendy Mesley  2:57  
Yeah, I've heard a photo it's hosted by Ivy Le which is Le with one e. She's a comedian from Austin, Texas. She describes herself as an out well no as an indoors woman. She's an Asian mom was severe allergies really helpful when you're camping. And she decided that she was going to like face this fear. She was going to take up camping and I've got bit of a cold you can hear that. Yes. And I think maybe yeah.

Maureen Holloway  3:21  
You sound frail when that's so deceptive. But, but back to Ivy, she didn't just take up camping. She did. I guess I'm there in her first season but the second season of FOGO, Ivy takes up hunting like with tracking and yes and shooting and feel like yes chop chopping things up and butchering because you should eat what you kill. 

Wendy Mesley  3:44  
Really? Why not? I don't know. 

Maureen Holloway  3:46  
No, no, no, you should eat what you kill because that's the responsible thing to do otherwise you're just out there murdering creatures. 

Wendy Mesley  3:53  
I don't get the whole hunting thing like why why would you want to hunt in the first place? 

Maureen Holloway  3:58  
Well, you know, at least according to to Ivy and and some of the people she's hunted with women actually make good hunters. A lot of feminine traits like being stealthy and quiet and thrifty and compassionate. Make women good hunters. 

Wendy Mesley  4:13  
So you go for it. I don't know. I think we should talk to I think we should talk to Ivy because it's quite the jump to go from like a little hike, which is you're very good at to like butchering, what is it a wild pig? 

Maureen Holloway  4:25  
Yep, that sure is so let's have find out more about that particular aspect of camping. Ivy Le. Ivy Le with an E welcome to Women Of Ill Repute. How are you doing? 

Ivy Le  4:44  
I am so excited to be here. I have been a woman of ill repute for a very long long time.

Maureen Holloway  4:52  
Yeah, we figured as much. So let's get straight to Wendy's question. Why? Why? For somebody who likes the indoors, why did you decide that this was something you needed to explore? 

Ivy Le  5:04  
Because I, because I am not famous enough to sell a show where I enjoy myself. People want to see me suffer. People love to see comedians suffer for their art. And they do and I do mean just like whinging and moaning the entire time. Just being a bad situation. So the answer to why do I want to go hunting? I don't, I didn't want to go camping. I never have and I didn't want to go hunting and I never have, but you see to me, because I don't know anything about the outdoors. I was like, Well, I mean, I tried hunting. I mean, I tried camping. How hard can hunting be? Because to me, I kind of paint the outdoors with one broad stroke, you guys hike and camp and stuff like that and canoe apparently. So you know that there are nuances I guess like levels and steps slipped between these outdoor activities. To me, it's all one broad bucket that I call white nonsense. Turns out it cannot be contained in one bucket. Yeah, hunting is a completely different bucket. But by the time I figured that out, it was like episode eight and it was like too late to turn back.

Wendy Mesley  6:11  
Yeah, so I've seen that you say all of the nature shows which apparently you're a huge fan of because you can watch them from inside. But they're all hosted by reckless white men. Are you trying to like take over as this is you're you're you're saying I'm not a reckless white man. And and I'm going to-

Maureen Holloway  6:29  
Are you trying to appropriate it? 

Ivy Le  6:31  
To reverse colonise?  I want yeah, if you know anybody that CBC who would make it I absolutely want to sell fogo the TV show the television experience. Absolutely. Because I think people, indoor people and outdoor people like to watch nature shows like what's not fun about nature? Or is it like the highlight reel of Earth? But then then I want to ask the follow up question like okay, and then what happens but then the outdoor person never asked the real questions that indoor people want to know.

Maureen Holloway  7:03  
True. So I guess the question is, has it been worth it? Have you enjoyed it? We'll start with the camping part because the hunting thing we can we're gonna spend a fair amount of time on that because it's foreign to us. But do you consider yourself a camper now? 

Ivy Le  7:18  
No. I thought y'all listen to the show. Absolutely not. It was so terrible. I went to July, I had it. I got a yeast infection from just practicing camping. It was so hot. I was the only person of color that decided to stay overnight on the entire campsite. It was, there was an old white man who was like kept checking in on our in our camp, wondering what we were doing and asking questions or you're trying to get things done. He ended up being a sweetheart but only because I refers colonize his campsite with my cooking ability. Do you know what I mean? No, it was loud. It nature is so loud. People say oh, they're going out for peace and quiet. We have cicadas and birds and just brush all the leaves are crunchy. They're constantly making noise. You can't take a quiet step anywhere in nature. There's fire ants. There's poison ivy everywhere. No, I went and it was a desert. It was so hard to go. I thought oh, people must go through this because it's nice. And they get there and I'm like, no, it's busted. This place is busted. I have never gone camping since. 

Wendy Mesley  8:24  
Yeah. What about the stars? Don't you love it now? Didn't? Didn't you have like a reawakening? 

Ivy Le  8:30  
I think this is this is why outdoor people never ask the real questions because you guys just go into it assuming that like, oh, people just need to experience it. And then it'll be nice. What about like, the neon signs that are brought by artists that light up the night? What about the reflection of street lights on a rainy street? What about you know, what about food trucks, the the American Dream lining up quarters, with their food trucks in their lights and families going out after their late night shifts trying to catch a meal together at 11 o'clock at night. Like, what? How about that? Why don't you guys like the city more? 

Wendy Mesley  9:07  
Because you were converted obviously. 

Maureen Holloway  9:10  
You can you can like both. But to me the thing that I don't like about camping and I went to camp and I went to actually a girls camp that specialized in canoe trips. I mean, that's a very Canadian thing to mean, kids come from all over the world to experience the Canadian wilderness. What it didn't like, was that I love food. And it's a struggle to make the simplest thing like man, you're starving all the time. And macaroni and cheese is like considered like the most delicious thing in the world and we would literally eat it off a rock. And I hated that. And the other thing is that just the sheer discomfort, you're exhausted and so you sleep well because you're exhausted but you're sleeping on the ground. We slept under canoes that you would put sideways and then stretch a tarpaulin to keep the rain off because it rained the whole time. And I hated it and that is why I hate camping because of the discomfort and the lack of luxury. Let's put it that way. 

Ivy Le  10:06  
I only use even luxury that you're looking for. You're just looking for like the bottom of the pyramid of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yes, just basic shelter, like come on. And that was denied. Like that sounds like what my parents went through in the refugee camp except your parents who allegedly love you sent you to this camp.

Maureen Holloway  10:27  
There's a whole subtext there. My parents sent me to a boarding school at a sleepover camp. We'll go there some other time. 

Wendy Mesley  10:35  
You had more than a tarp at the refugee camp? 

Maureen Holloway  10:38  
No her parents Ivy's parents? 

Wendy Mesley  10:40  
Well, I think it is a little bit of a different perspective. Because-

Ivy Le  10:45  
A little bit?

Wendy Mesley  10:47  
Yeah, just just a little bit. So was that a reckless white guy who came by and was making sure that you knew how to camp. 

Ivy Le  10:54  
I mean, he looked pretty reckless to me, he was sunburned to how he, you know, definitely, he probably they were eating relatively well at their camp. But they had, what it sounds like y'all would consider glamping. You know, they had like fancy stoves, they had like to fees and a tarp kind of over in between, which is exactly how I would do it. If I was in their shoes. They had, you know, three generations like I absolutely would not take my small children to camp under conditions that I can't I think that would be reckless and irresponsible. So he had a better setup, but because you know, because that's what you should do if you have children, and you're going to kind of just throw them into the outdoors. 

Maureen Holloway  11:35  
Speaking of what white men do, and this is very much the case in Canada as well. Hunting is very much the domain of the white man. I mean, we're a very diverse society here. But I mean, my husband and I have a cottage up north. And we only use it in the summer. If you go up in November. It's a different place. It's filled with white middle aged guys, and a lot of dead deer. And it's looks like it looks like a battlefield. It looks like a you know, a bloodbath. So you have gone hunting in Texas. Is it a similar situation? 

Ivy Le  12:09  
Well, I mean, I don't know. I've never been to a village of cottages in North Canada. I don't suspect that it's as diverse as Texas is even in the hunting offseason. But certainly, so really, what you're saying is when deer season happens, all the women leave your village? But here, you just like all the white women who are normally there leave the village. And you go back to the cities that are diverse. Here in Texas, we were very diverse state. I don't know people outside of the outside of my state out in the United States, I think don't always believe that. But we are one of the most diverse places in the country. I don't know how that compares to Canada. I've not been north at the Mason Dixon Line very much my life and y'all are way north of the Mason Dixon Line. But way north way north. But what I found, it wasn't just that numbers wise, it's dominated by white men. It's dominated by white men, because of our youth, America's particularly racialized history, when you kind of think about it just kind of if you're just like a kid thinking about this, you're like, Okay, well, if humans eat meat, they have to hunt. Right? Like, if humans you learned in school, there are dinosaurs that are carnivores or dinosaurs that are herbivores, and they're dinosaurs that are omnivores. Humans are omnivore animals. In your child kind of thinking through it, you're like, Okay, so like all humans, at some point must hunt. So it doesn't make sense that hunting would it doesn't make intuitive sense that hunting would be such a such a specific demographic of like tall white men who are rich in usually land owning white men. But because of our particular history, where we pretty much killed all the indigenous people who hunt we in that's in the West, right? We black people in America in the United States. I don't know what the history of Canada was by people, the United States were forcibly brought here. And they had to hunt because they weren't given enough calories, usually by their slave owners, you know. And so they were hunting, but then after we freed the slaves, it turns out that that we passed all these laws to make it so that it was nearly impossible for black people to hunt because people were sore about it. They were sore about slavery. So they wanted to somehow force black people back into slavery, like can we just have like, Okay, we were not gonna have slavery, but can we have something kind of like it? You know, that's what they were trying to do. So all these black folks who were freed now, they were just kind of go out into the land. It wasn't public or private land, it was just land you know, people had not kind of come up with this ownership thing with like, absolutely every square inch of land must be owned and generating income for someone whether it's a government entity or an individual person or a family or something like that we hadn't come up with that concept yet. But we came up with that concept, because we were trying to make it impossible for freedmen to just kind of go out to the woods and start their own communities and recover from slavery. And people who could hunt would hunt and sell their extra meat and sell their, you know, the pelts of these animals and things like that. And they did not have to participate in the white economy until all these laws passed, where they could do that. And in the northeast, it was immigrants in the northeast, they did the same thing. Immigrants who brought their hunting traditions from all over the world came to North America to you know, build their American dream. And we outlawed pretty much everywhere, everywhere that they hunt to. So everybody that was hunting in this continent, if they weren't a white male, a war a wealthy white male, even, they were it was either they were either genocided or outlawed. And that's why it's a white male thing.

Maureen Holloway  15:55  
No, its it's, it's, it's a great socio political background to your own intrepid efforts to get out there. I do want to say something for anybody who's listening in in Ontario, and who hunts here, and who isn't from one of the big cities like Toronto or so on, like, literally the locals, where we have a cottage, they hunt, because they need the meat, they may be white, and they predominantly are there. We're not particularly diverse once you get outside of the city in this in this province, or maybe even in this country, but they hunt in the fall and you if you get a deer that's meat for the winter. So I don't mean to, personally, I don't mean to make light of the need to to, to you know, bag a moose for the freezer for the for the winter. And people do do that. But for those who do it recreationally and who do feel dress and usually give the meat to the locals who work as guides. For those people who do that. It's the thrill of the hunt, did you have-

The thrill of murder. 

Did you get a sense of that at all? In your own experience? Not that I don't think you actually caught it. You did you got a deer at one point, didn't you? 

Ivy Le  17:06  
I definitely kind of stubbornly refuse to end the season until I at least have the chance to shoot at something. And, and I and I do get something unless I get the chance to murder. Because I think that's one of the questions. One of the many questions that endure is I eat meat. I love me. I love to cook it, you know, and I love to eat it. And I really don't want to give it up. If I couldn't kill it myself, then I shouldn't eat it. So there is kind of that question confronting me that when if I'm interesting, too much of a wimp to do it myself, then if I can't stomach you know the death of something, then I should stop eating the meat because buying meat at the store doesn't absolve you. You're just hiring a hitman. Right? It doesn't absolve you from guilt. You're just doing it for convenience.

Wendy Mesley  18:01  
So does it make you feel different now when you go to the I don't know, the local shopping Mart and you buy like a slice of meat dude, like, look, does it look at you with nice deer eyes. 

Ivy Le  18:11  
It's not different for me because I have only been kind of removed from my family's food waste for about one generation. So I don't personally have any delusions about where my food comes from. 

Wendy Mesley  18:27  
So I'm trying to imagine you walking onto the set of Yellowstone, like so many Americans have been watching this the stupid series and getting sucked into what happened. That's 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, but I'm trying to imagine like there's no Vietnamese people there. There's no Asian people. There's a couple of, of Indigenous people who like they like scalpers. It's like it's, it's unbelievable. It's all told through the eyes of the I don't know, the reckless white men who discovered the south and it's all very loving. And it's all about freedom and independence, but I'm trying to imagine you so is that maybe that could be your next series. You could be like 1979 when the Vietnamese came to North America and you go to you go to Yellowstone. 

Ivy Le  19:08  
I think pretty much that is what FOGO is. Is the daughter of these immigrants trying to figure out what is happening outside in this continent. 

Wendy Mesley  19:19  
Wow. 

And the answer,

Ivy Le  19:21  
But I yeah, I'm not. I'm not a I'm not a Yellowstone girl. I'm a Rutherford falls girl. So I don't really know what's happening in Yellowstone. For me, you know how I never get mad when comics are just people kind of mixed me up with other Asian people. Because I personally find it really difficult to distinguish white people I have global majority blindness. And to me, especially in Austin, I don't know how it is in Toronto in Austin. The white men on purpose, have the same beard wear the same clothes drink the same beverages Do you really mean they're like really? Whereas like Asian people we are not on we are not trying to dress like we're not trying to look like, you know, but but still I don't ever want to say anything because I know I'm probably about to make the same mistake you know to them if you told me that you were sisters or cousins I absolutely would not question you not I would. 

Maureen Holloway  20:16  
We do kind of look alike with this. This is an anomaly. We're dear friends. 

Ivy Le  20:21  
Okay, thank you so much in common. Thank you for saying it because I didn't want to have to say it. 

Maureen Holloway  20:26  
No we could easily be confused for each other, which is not the way we planned it. But anyway, that's the way it is. I hear you.

Ivy Le  20:33  
So when I watch these TV shows, when I watched it when I if I can't get into these TV shows, because I can't follow the plot because I keep mixing up the characters.

Wendy Mesley  20:43  
But some have beards. 

Maureen Holloway  20:45  
Not the women.

Wendy Mesley  20:48  
Mostly. But why don't you do a podcast that's based on the indoors? Like if you love the indoors, like you said to have 1000 ideas during COVID Why don't you know just do a an indoor podcast? 

Maureen Holloway  21:00  
Well FOGO seems to be working out for Ivy, I don't know if you need I mean whether although you say that you haven't come away with a renewed or a new appreciation for it. I mean, you're doing what you hate, but it seems to be working.

Ivy Le  21:15  
I think because I just I have an insatiable curiosity. And I want indoor people to be able to trust me as a host that I am going to ask the questions that you really want to know. And if you tune in, you are going to learn the thing that they don't show on the TV show, the highly edited you know, TV show nature documentary, right. And I just I do get joy from getting my questions answered, even if I don't physically enjoy being outside. And a lot of times they don't actually have to go outside. You know, you when I butchered that hog when I was learning how to put your side would know what to do when I was in the field. It was so cool. I ended up getting to be inside with the renowned chef inside his fancy restaurant and an off day and be behind the counter like inside the kitchen. It was awesome. I would say most shows. I don't do an indoor show because most podcasts are indoor shows, comedy shows they take place in theaters, you know, cooking shows they take place in kitchens, right most most human beings. And most of our culture is indoors. That's why the indoors is so much more compelling than the outdoors where there is just sky and dead leaves. And Lyme disease and stars sometimes in Lyme disease. You know, I feel like Lyme disease stars like Lyme diseases, is  they're not equivalent, you know? What do you do tickets? Do they not come out at night? 

Maureen Holloway  22:44  
Oh, no, no, because just you're not supposed to be out at night in the bush. That's probably not advisable. Because you will get eaten alive. We do have our seasons are very intense. 

Ivy Le  22:53  
Why do you keep selling us on the stars? 

Wendy Mesley  22:56  
I know. I know it's through there, man. I didn't realize until I sort of retired that I looked up in the sky and I was like holy shit. Like who knew there were all these like sparkly white things. So they're kind of cool, but that's for my Do you guys have I'm not in the bush. 

Ivy Le  23:11  
Okay, do you guys have planetariums in Canada? 

Maureen Holloway  23:14  
Yeah. 

Ivy Le  23:15  
Planetariums are awesome. You can see all the stars in the sky. And you can also select which time of year even if it's not your actual you can time travel with the stars inside of a air conditioned planetarium. 

Maureen Holloway  23:29  
So you've taken nothing away from this that you would that are very little that you would say makes it worth it to go outside. 

Ivy Le  23:37  
I go outside so that you don't have to.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  23:45  
The Women Of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  23:48  
I want to just go back because we I don't think we've talked enough about this. And I find it really interesting and it is about well, eating what you kill. So you specifically went after mammals you didn't think of maybe you know, bird shooting birds or because to me, there's a hierarchy. I mean, I love meat. I love lamb. I think they're adorable and delicious. And, but I do think that if I had to draw the line, I could be a pescetarian or chicken and fish. It's the mammals that really get to me. So I just feel that we're gonna have a dog so you know, I feel a kinship to this type of animal. But you went straight for it had. Did you ever think maybe there would there would be levels of murder that were more acceptable to you like birds or fishing? 

Ivy Le  24:38  
So I'm Buddhist, there is no level of murder that was acceptable.

Wendy Mesley  24:44  
Wow you're Buddhist. 

Ivy Le  24:46  
So I actually want to ask you, why do you think your dog's life or a cow's life or any other mammals life I guess is worth more than a fish or a bird? 

Maureen Holloway  24:58  
Oh, maybe because they're more intelligent and more nurturing, and seem to be capable of have a need to be with other warm blooded creatures. 

Ivy Le  25:11  
So ants, ants who have an extreme sense of community. Do you feel guilty about killing machines? I don't have a wish list. Why? 

Maureen Holloway  25:23  
I don't know because I do don't I don't want to kill bumblebees. Not only because they make honey but because they're cute and fuzzy and you know that kind of thing. And yet but a wasp I hate. These are these are difficult questions IV. And you're making me think about this, maybe more than I'm prepared to. But yeah, I do. I think mammals are hard to kill. And anything that isn't a mammal is probably easier to kill for I don't know whether it's socially ingrained, or just just my my knee jerk reaction.

Ivy Le  25:51  
I definitely experienced that that I tell it so because my perspective matters in the show. Every episode starts with what comedians call a cold open. It's usually like the scene at the beginning of a sitcom that just sets the tone for the episode but doesn't maybe introduces a character, but for the most part, the cold open doesn't impact the plot of the episode. It's, it's just a bit usually, you know, so we have cold opens at the top of every episode of fogo because I'm a comic, but also because I know that there are not a lot of Vietnamese American comics, women with kids and allergies and ADHD and a raging amount of bisexuality, you know, so I know that there's a lot about my perspective, who are Buddhist, you know, yeah, there's not a lot of representation of people like me, even though there are millions of people exactly like me, right. So at the top of the episode, we do a cold open some story for migrant background to just help ground the listener, whatever background you're from, in what my perspective is, so that the show the following the rest of the episode makes sense, right? Well, so there's a couple cold opens, where I'm talking about my experience, killing a mosquito or an experience, choosing a fish died, or an experience like going diving for fish or something like that. And we got feedback, where people would say, but what does this have to do with hunting? And I'm like, What do you mean, what does that have to do with hunting? Like literally when it killed an animal? Right? But I think it's there is some cultural difference here. Between outdoors people and me that I, I can't be on both sides of it. So I don't know. Why. No, I never considered a bird mostly because the big hunting thing here is Turkey. And I just don't like to eat turkey that much. That'd be that's just kind of that is the bottom line. Right. But it also just never occurred to me that there is a difference. I even heard a hunter tell me that. I don't know. I wasn't able to fact check this. But that the Tibetans who live in the mountains who have to you know, they they're not supposed to kill, but what they'll kill is, whatever their equivalent, I think it's a Yak, whatever their equivalent of our bison is that's indigenous over there. It's a really large animal. They'll kill one of those because they're like, well, at least we can feed more people. And we only ended up killing one will and having one soul. And for them that's so that's like, they're like we if we don't do this, we can't live. So we're sorry. It will try to atone for it. But this way we can. We can atone for just one soul. 

Wendy Mesley  28:30  
It's really interesting. Because right now, it seems like there's a battle between the people saying I love meat and come to my restaurant where you can eat the bones of whatever, whatever. And it's all very groovy. And then on the other hand, you have people saying, well, why? Why is it okay? And we're creating all of this green stuff and vegetables that, that tastes like meat, because we're still somehow attached to meat. It's really interesting. And I sort of think that 50 years from now, maybe 20 years from now we'll we'll look back and we'll go what, what was it when we're eating all of these pigs and these cows and these? I don't know whether we'll ever get to ants, though. Do you think we'll ever get there?

Maureen Holloway  29:03  
No, we are already there. There's a whole movement of insect insect protein insect protein crickets yet still killing them. I mean, like caring about the ants, like, I'm never going to care about the ants. You know? I'm not going to actually I have I have affection for spiders. I think there would nature's architects. But I don't want to eat them spiders. 

Ivy Le  29:25  
Spiders are like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

Maureen Holloway  29:28  
Yeah, that's how I feel about them too. Yeah. 

Wendy Mesley  29:30  
So we think you should do a TV show only there's a Canadian guy named Eugene Levy who's just started doing I haven't watched it but it's called thought reluctant traveler. It sounds very much like FOGO, so there could be- 

Ivy Le  29:41  
I agree. I think it sounds too much like oh, and I was doing FOGO before Eugene Levy got his show. It's like he copied my marketing materials Eugene 

Maureen Holloway  29:51  
Yeah, that's that thief that will reverse nepo. He's an nepo daddy is what he is. You know who you should meet and we should connect you Mary- Anne Iverson is actually the voice of Women Of Ill Repute when you hear the finished product. She's the one who introduces the show. And she has a very successful podcast yourself called Get Outside and -

Wendy Mesley  30:18  
Maybe they should not meet. 

Maureen Holloway  30:20  
I know what Marianne does everything like she you know she cross country skis. She is She forages. I don't know what she does. But she loves. I do know what she does. But she is the opposite of you, Ivy, and I think it would be hilarious to bring you guys together because you're from different planets. But both outside one reluctantly, the other one not so much.

Ivy Le  30:38  
I think indoor people would really enjoy that pairing. And if we could get it on TV, I think that would be hilarious. Because I feel like there'll be a lot of facial expressions, communicating a lot of things. 

Maureen Holloway  30:49  
You're a very visual for someone who's doing a podcast. And yet, I love the style of your prayer. Like you're actually out there I listened to you eviscerate that pig or hog or whatever you call it and and it was probably better than watching but you definitely feel like you're there. What are you going to do next? What season three? Do you have a plan? 

Ivy Le  31:09  
God, I hope it's something easy and inexpensive.

Wendy Mesley  31:13  
What about camping and hunting? 

Ivy Le  31:16  
I don't know somebody pitched us fishing. Somebody pitched us birdwatching. We're getting we're definitely taking ideas. But I don't know, because I feel so chastened because I just made a lot of assumptions about hunting when I pitched it and nobody you know, in LA and New York at Spotify, who signed off on it, you know, knows anything about hunting either, so everybody was like, Yeah, this should be fine. And then it was a total shit show. So now I'm super nervous that any idea I come up with is just gonna be terrible. It's gonna turn into a shit show just like I'm doing was. 

Wendy Mesley  31:55  
Fishing is good. Except in you almost drown and camping. 

Ivy Le  31:59  
I've almost drowned a couple times off the coast of land you which is off the coast of Taiwan, when I went tried to go diving for fish, but we had pool noodles when I went camping park in Texas.

Wendy Mesley  32:12  
So you didn't drown. 

Maureen Holloway  32:13  
I think you should pitch ice fishing, which is a very popular sport up here in the winter where you actually build a little cabin out on the ice and dig in. Dig a hole not dig a hole chop a hole. I think you would probably find that really awful. And it would be really amusing for the rest of us. There's a lot of drinking. Yeah, but if he did he could come up here and we'll we'll have you back on again and see how you like that. 

Ivy Le  32:41  
What is the point of ice fishing? Is it just fishing but everything's iced over so there's no you have no choice but to ice? 

Wendy Mesley  32:48  
No.

No stars. There's no real stars with the kit. You know you shouldn't be out there at night but I think it's really an excuse to drink is what it is. That's what they're doing with those little huts or God knows why do y'all need excuses to drink? Just drink.

To the neon sign. Yes. City Girl is a city girl. 

Ivy Le  33:10  
in your kitchen just open your fridge and support a local brewery and just start drinking. 

Maureen Holloway  33:15  
While we do that too. Ivy you're really interesting person. You're a bisexual Buddhist indoors woman. Are you single mom or do you have a partner? 

Ivy Le  33:24  
I do have a partner. Oh, good. I did end up in a straight passing marriage with a man because the other way it was illegal.

Wendy Mesley  33:33  
What was illegal to have a partner? 

Ivy Le  33:36  
Gay marriage was illegal until like five minutes ago. 

Maureen Holloway  33:39  
Yeah. 

Ivy Le  33:40  
It got legalized after I had my first child. 

Maureen Holloway  33:43  
Really? Wow. 

Ivy Le  33:44  
Yeah, so I didn't even get to go celebrate. I had to stay home so I just made myself a cocktail and watch birdcage with my baby. 

Maureen Holloway  33:50  
You really are a woman of ill repute. It's a pleasure to meet you. Good luck with everything that you do we'll be we'll be following you. 

Wendy Mesley  33:59  
Yeah and if you do a series about ice fishing fishing and and you could like who marry whoever you want in Canada like because we're we're very cool that way. 

Ivy Le  34:07  
Do you guys allow polygamy because we're not allowed

Wendy Mesley  34:12  
Canada rocks, man. 

Maureen Holloway  34:14  
No way we don't allow polygamy Ivy don't let her lead you astray. 

Ivy Le  34:19  
I will literally believe anything you told me about Canada. Thank you so much for getting me up there. That for getting me to the ears of folks because actually, our sound engineer Robin Edgar is Canadian. And her family her parents are big fans of the show. And our our producer Mariah Gossage, she has family up in Canada too. 

Maureen Holloway  34:40  
Well come and see us yourself. 

Wendy Mesley  34:42  
It's a big camp for women of ill repute, which occasionally involves men. 

Maureen Holloway  34:46  
Yeah, okay.

Ivy Le  34:47  
I want to I love I love Canadians except for Eugene Levy's marketing copywriters. 

Wendy Mesley  34:54  
We'll tell him of all people not-

Ivy Le  34:55  
 Give me my tagline back. 

Wendy Mesley  34:57  
Lovely to talk to you Ivy and we'll set you up with Eugene. 

Maureen Holloway  35:01  
Yeah. Godspeed.

Wendy Mesley  35:04  
Bye.

Maureen Holloway  35:05  
Bye. Well, that was fun.

Wendy Mesley  35:10  
Yeah, she's, she's a ball of fire. She's both a Vietnamese person trying to inhabit the woods and an inside person trying to inhabit the woods. It's great. She's very funny. 

Maureen Holloway  35:20  
She's very funny and she's also very insightful and and and obviously very intelligent and her reasons for going outside. It's almost like she's doing a dissertation. As to to why people, people like her don't go outside there. It's not there's not a place for them. 

Wendy Mesley  35:38  
I wanted to ask her about I think her name is Diane Morgan. She does conch which is basically a take off of one of Ivy's favorite shows whether whether it's mocking or not. It's called conch on Earth. Diane Morgan of Konkan Earth makes fun of David Attenborough and Ivy loves David Attenborough but she also watches it with a certain amount of satire so it's just yeah it's kind of everything all in one yeah, she's she's she's great. I so much like talking to her but I sound weird though. 

Maureen Holloway  36:07  
You're sick. Hello. If you're if you don't know what's going on with Wendy, she's lost her voice. It's the one thing you need for his job. 

Wendy Mesley  36:18  
I know well, I've been I was saving myself for Ivy so yeah, well, we'll get it back. 

Maureen Holloway  36:23  
You sound frail, but we know that's not the case. So you know, suck it up buttercup and now we'll see you see what the next guest 

Wendy Mesley  36:31  
Okay.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  36:34  
Women Of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley, with the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.