George Stroumboulopoulos: Canada's Boyfriend

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of Ill Repute, with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway.

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
Wendy, have you ever heard of Dunbar's theory?

Wendy Mesley  0:11  
No, I haven't. What is Dunbar's theory? 

Maureen Holloway  0:14  
Dunbar's theory is that you can only manage so many relationships in your life, or connections. By connections, he means the number of people you would know well enough to say hello to in an airport, for example.

Wendy Mesley  0:26  
That's tricky, because as a former on camera person, lots of people say hello, and I don't know who they are. 

Maureen Holloway  0:32  
You don't know them, that doesn't count. I'm talking about a mutual relationship. And that number is 150. It's pretty precise. And I bring this up because I don't think that Dunbar's theory applies to our guest this week.

Wendy Mesley  0:45  
Yeah, it's- I want to hear what his number is, because George Stroumboulopoulos- I think he probably knows everyone and everyone knows him. So it's gotta be.

Maureen Holloway  0:56  
Most popular kid in the school. He was just given the Order of Canada for just being popular. Strombo, as he's known, because of course he has a cool nickname. I think he maintains connections with more than 150 people. 

Wendy Mesley  1:08  
Yeah, so where to begin? He was a DJ. A VJ, a talk show host. One time host of Hockey Night in Canada. 

Maureen Holloway  1:18  
Social advocate, UN Goodwill Ambassador, tastemaker, rebel with a cause. I like Canada's boyfriend.

Wendy Mesley  1:24  
I kind of like that one, too.

Maureen Holloway  1:27  
So many people think that they have a special relationship with him.

Wendy Mesley  1:36  
Despite the fact that Strombo's circle probably greatly exceeds Dunbar's 100- is it- 150, I think you said. Yeah, what do we really know? 

Maureen Holloway  1:45  
That's it. So I don't know if he's gonna tell us. But we can always ask. Hi, George.

Wendy Mesley  1:49  
Hi.

George Stroumboulopoulos  1:50  
How are you? It's so- it's so lovely to hear both your voices in my ears. Because when- I obviously Wendy, you and I had CBC for a long time and watching before that. Maureen, when I started in radio in the early 90s, you had a- like a segment that would air on this radio station in Kelowna, that I worked on. And it was a small little station. And it was one of the many things that you had done. So it's just your your voices have both been a part of my- my psychology for so long. It's just really nice to hear them and to see you both. 

Maureen Holloway  2:20  
Well, likewise, you know, the Dunbar's theory thing I came across. Another thing I just want to add to that, is I was reading this morning about Truman Capote, who's back of the news because of the Swan show. He had a list of 2000 people he hated.

Wendy Mesley  2:36  
Yeah, so tell us all your secrets. Who do you hate?

George Stroumboulopoulos  2:39  
I've got about six only. Well, listen, not- not to fact check. I wasn't the most popular kid in school by any means. And, and I'm not great at keeping in touch with people, which is maybe part of my charm. So I don't know if that's the case. But yeah, I know, I've been very, very lucky to- I have a thing in my brain. Like, I don't have the chip in my brain that makes me self conscious. And I don't remember ever being self conscious. I don't care about my opinion on things I don't care about. I don't care about my experience in this world. And I kind of never have, you know, within reason. So when I meet people, and it's hard for people to believe this because there's so much bullshittiness in our business, that it's hard for them to realize that actually mean it. I actually do care about that interaction with somebody. Because I don't believe that- I don't believe in an afterlife. But I also certainly if there were to be one. I don't think you're judged on the totality of your actions. I think you're judged on your last 10 minutes, which is a reminder to be there always. And that's what I want to be and always try to be. So when I meet people, I really do want this to be the loveliest moment because it might be our last. And I really value that. 

Wendy Mesley  3:51  
The six then, that you hate. I'm sure you just made that up. Yeah, but do you hate anybody? It's so interesting. I'm- there's people that I hate in a moment, but do you actually hate them?

George Stroumboulopoulos  4:01  
No, I don't hate them. I have to nurture my better angels, so that I don't let the street version of me come out. Because I do have- you know, I'm like any- as much work as we tried to do on our interiors, I think we just are who we are in a lot of ways. So I still feel like that. I have that chip on my shoulder that you know, you grew up young, single parent home, below the poverty line, rougher neighborhoods, and so I'll never lose that version of me. I remember what my best friend Bob backwoods said to me Why it's weird. I was talking at large we were talking about meditation, because I had done a little bit and he does it. And he had said to me, I don't think you should do meditation because it'll make you soft. And part of who you are is hard. And of course everybody tried to tell him that was bad advice. But I like it because I'm a pretty edgy guy. And I don't ever want to not be, so I'll definitely have moments where I'll say out loud to myself that motherf- and about one particular person. And then I'll just- I'll be like, look, they're on their own journey. And I try to be Buddhist about it. But I don't hate people. But there are people that I certainly don't want to engage with. I don't want to be around. And in our business over the years, I think especially early on, you work so hard to be a part of it. And then once you get there, you realize, oh, I don't need this. I want the thing that I like to do is actually connecting with people watching the rest of it, I don't care about. So there's definitely times in our industry where I've made sure my circle was a little bit tighter than than it could have been.

Maureen Holloway  5:30  
I'm going to jump right to something I thought we'd get into halfway through, but I really want to talk to you about it. Because my kids- I have two boys, they're 25 and 30. And they're mad sports fans, mad hockey fans, and they loved it when you were hosting Hockey Night in Canada, but they are kids, right? They're young men, but they were kids. And so when I said, you know, I'm gonna be talking to George Stromboulopoulos. They're like, Oh, ask him what happened with the hockey. Like that to them was- and I think you did appeal to the audience they wanted you to appeal to, but the old curmudgeons who liked their interviews done by rote- I mean, I loved your interviews. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  6:07  
Thank you. 

Maureen Holloway  6:08  
You made these players interesting. Like beyond the ice. The hell happened?

George Stroumboulopoulos  6:14  
So I was working at CBC during the talk show. And there was a new management there, I knew that things were coming. They had told me to stick around and figure a contract out. I didn't like the- the tone I was getting from them. So I started to think what am I going to do if I don't do this show anymore? And I got this text message in December, saying, Hey, should we talk and I knew who it was from, and it was about Hockey Night. So they offered they talked to me what I'd be interested in. And I remember speaking to three senior members of that, at this network, Rogers, but also at I called Gary Bettman and I said, You guys are crazy. You don't want this, like you don't want this on me. I'm not I'm not going to not be me. You don't want this? They said no, we do. And I said no, you don't. You don't. They said yeah, we do anyway, all right. And then so in my brain, I thought this is a mistake. It's never going to work. But I'm never going to be somebody who is ever governed by fear ever. I'll do dumb things, just do them. And I thought, You know what, I actually really love hockey. And I love sports broadcasting. I didn't love the way a lot of sports broadcasting existed in the moment. So I thought, sure, I'll try it out. But I knew it wasn't going to work. So I made sure that I was protected contractually. And I got there. And what I was actually told by the people who ended up firing me, because the guy that hired me left the company, he left the company. So it was put in the hands of somebody else. So I didn't think we were going to have a great working relationship anyway. But he had actually said to me, the ratings are actually going up with people under 30 and with women. Like, they're going up.

Wendy Mesley  7:43  
That's why you were hired. 

Yeah, that was your job.

George Stroumboulopoulos  7:45  
Yeah. And I knew that. Also, I knew this, you know, Wendy, when I got to CBC, when they offered me to show I turned that down four times, because I had no interest in working at CBC, because I also didn't think they had the stomach for that. But I was lucky that Heaton Dyer was in charge, and Kierson Stewart and ultimately, they knew that the group of people who didn't see themselves as part of our audience would feel welcome. Because that was always the goal. I knew the same thing was gonna happen with the old hockey guys. I knew that would because that was the path. But the people in charge didn't have the same stomach that the people at CBC did. So I knew it wasn't going to work. To be honest with you. I am. I'm glad I did it. I'm glad it ended. I'm fine with the way it ended. Because they told me that I was actually told by somebody in senior management, the actual words, they said to me were, do less music in your personal life and be more conservative. laughed, I thought, no chance. Because what be more conservative means we all know what that means. Like, I'm not doing that. Because I know what it's like to try to connect a country with different points of view, because we did that at CBC for a long time. So at Hockey Night, in the end, I knew it wasn't going to work. But I knew that it could work. But I just didn't think that they would have the stomach for there's a lot of great people I worked with there. I really liked them. I have no problems with the experience at all. I also am a grown up about the industry. Sometimes you get hired, sometimes you get fired, and I'm totally fine with that.

Maureen Holloway  9:11  
You're like the Conan O'Brien of Hockey Night, because they brought Jay Leno back. Not actually Jay Leno. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  9:17  
No, but no. But it's interesting you say that, because if you look now at the late night talk show hosts, there's only I think seven or eight, you know, people who used to host a daily talk show that lasted at least a decade who don't have talk shows now. And in the English speaking world, I'm one of them. Conan was one of them. I've talked to Conan about this. I've talked to Stephen Colbert about this. We've talked about this kind of stuff, which is I stopped watching television a long time ago, the way I used to, and I was still hosting the late night talk show. When I was no longer watching late night talk shows and in my back of my brain, I thought I shouldn't be doing that. I don't want to do this show anymore, because I actually don't I think this version of it is over. I think this version of talk is over. I want to do my version of talk and I needed to go learn how to do it, which is what I've been working on now. So the same with hockey, I- if you look at the stats, I think it's a Gen Z stat, but also millennials, an enormous percentage of them bigger than you would expect. follow sports but don't watch the game live. Because the way people communicate and connect to things are different. And I can connect to them in a more modern way. I think that some of the oh geez do. So I want to I if I'm going to be in this business, I want to do interesting shapes. I want to do it in ways that I think are forward looking rather than tried and true. And you as you know, we've all done this. We've all worked at places where we are the new people, and then we're the wallpaper, and I don't ever want to be wallpaper. I don't think that's interesting to me.

Wendy Mesley  10:45  
I have this relationship with Maureen now, Mo, where she is- like, she's a comedian, and she understands and knows so much about pop culture. And it makes me think of the relationship that- we have a very special relationship, he's my boyfriend. It makes me think of back when you were on the hour at CBC and you interviewed me standing in front of a bunch of magazines, you wanted me to talk about pop culture, and I know nothing. And Mo was like, shaking her head, going ugh. This is- this is our life. And yet you have managed, through that job, The Hour, through the hockey show, through the show that you're doing now. You've managed to find a- a place for yourself, and to argue for yourself. And I just wish that- that you and I could have something that we could talk about that's not pop culture, because I call myself a mutant and Maureen calls me a moron. 

Maureen Holloway  11:39  
No, I do not.

George Stroumboulopoulos  11:41  
I mean, for me, it was never pop culture. It was more culture that I- because I use- I did this joke once and it did not land when I was at- doing- I think there was like the Governor General's Award one day and I was presenting on behalf of- I think it was on behalf of The Tragically Hip. And I was- I tried to explain to the people who call it arts that when I was growing up the Group of Seven to me, the neighborhoods I grew up in, the group of seven were the seven drug dealers on the corner. So I didn't I didn't grow up in a world where arts were a thing. I grew up in a world where culture was music and and the way we connected and politics and movies and all that kind of stuff. So the newsstand was to me a way where I could take people who and get them to connect to you in a different way. So I will talk culture all day long. I would I would love to. But yeah, I found that music was my driving force music and movies are my driving driving force in terms of how I understood the world. When I was 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, and- and of course reading, reading- reading books became crucial to my development as a young kid. But I never- I never felt like guys like me- Yeah, there are lots of white looking guys on TV, but an ethnic guy from my neighborhoods, we didn't really- I didn't- I never watched Canadian television and went, yeah, that's my Canada. Because none of the shit I saw on TV was my Canada. 

Wendy Mesley  13:00  
Is it now though? Like what you're seeing now? Are you seeing anything?

George Stroumboulopoulos  13:04  
I'm seeing a little bit. I'm seeing a little bit more. But I think- and maybe this comes from, and everybody has this experience depending on their- the neighborhood they're from, but when you're from the west side of Toronto, and a Gen X'er, we had a very different- most of my friends, I would say all of them. We were the first persons in our family born in Canada, we were the very first people that English was our first language if that was the case. And we were in a school where every single kid in that school, for the most part was the first person in their family born in Canada. And we were all Westside kids. So we just have a very unique experience in Canada. And that's why when CBC when I got a manager in the US, and I was doing all this, but I've been to work that much music, and he asked me to give him the lay of the land of Canada, I didn't even bring up CBC or CTV because I said, these are not this is not who these are my people. This is all my group. Now, when I got there, I realized, oh, you know, okay, there's definitely a way for it. And I think part of the reason why you're such a great journalist, Wendy, is because the thing that makes us great is the thing that makes us not have the capacity to always pay attention to everything. So why would you need to know about random pop culture stuff when you're actually talking to- 

Wendy Mesley  14:10  
Yeah, but nobody cares at all about politics anymore.

Maureen Holloway  14:15  
I wouldn't say nobody does.

Wendy Mesley  14:16  
Well, I do. And there are- there are five other people, like George's list of people that he hates, but- 

George Stroumboulopoulos  14:22  
No, people- people care about politics, Wendy. I just don't think they call it that anymore. I think we're in the most interesting time in our- in our journey, because when I was growing up, I was trying to explain to people older than me that the system was broken. And the- and the more established people would tell me, the right wingers would tell me no it's not, the system's good. You don't know the system's good. Now it's the right wingers that actually stormed the Capitol. Right? So for the first time in my lifetime, the people who we don't agree with all agree on one thing, that the system doesn't work. So we actually are halfway there. Now, that second half of the journey is the hardest part.

Wendy Mesley  14:59  
So you're a Trump supporter, obviously.

George Stroumboulopoulos  15:03  
We do agree that it's all broken now. I'm listening to people who I know who are really conservative, who are Trump supporters, talk to me about corporations and talk to me about the establishment. And I'm saying to them, bro, you've kept the establishment in power for a long time. Thank you for finally seeing it, that it doesn't work. So I think that we're more engaged now. I think we're- we're less informed. And I think we have- we have maybe diminished critical thinking skills, because the- a lot of tech companies and social media companies have bio hacks and using algorithms to really trick us into things. But we all agreed it doesn't work. And that, to me, is a positive sign. So I think people care about politics. I just don't think we're at the place yet where we can talk about it. I think that's where we're- I think we're in the early stages of that.

Maureen Holloway  15:48  
You're in Los Angeles?

George Stroumboulopoulos  15:50  
I am right now. Yeah.

Wendy Mesley  15:51  
Boo!

Maureen Holloway  15:51  
Right now, or? Are you there semi permanently? Or what's going on?

George Stroumboulopoulos  15:57  
I bounced between LA Toronto and New York. These are the- but I've been doing that for 20 years. New York about eight. But LA, I've been between Toronto and LA for almost 20 years now.

Maureen Holloway  16:06  
Do you have a place there?

George Stroumboulopoulos  16:07  
I do. Yeah, I do. I love LA because LA is a walking talking crime scene. And if you want to know what the city of the future is going to be like coming to LA, if you want to know what living in a world with an increasing income inequality gap. This is what it's like, if you want to see abject poverty and you want to see the riches. Here it is on the same street. If you want to know what the real world feels like, hang around Hollywood for a bit, hang around LA. And this is a busted city in a busted state. And so to me, I feel like I'm part of the real world. Everybody has this idea of what Hollywood is, it ain't that. This is the real world in many respects. Toronto is gonna get this way. In 10 years, like it's all coming unless somebody has a gigantic rethink about the way we do politics. It's all coming. So I'm- I love being in LA because this is- this is some pretty raw stuff here. 

Wendy Mesley  16:56  
But are you still Canada's boyfriend? I mean, how can- how can you be Canada's boyfriend and live in LA?

Maureen Holloway  17:01  
Because it's so Canadian to have a boyfriend in America. Oh, my boyfriend's in LA.

George Stroumboulopoulos  17:06  
I'm your side piece. No, it's because as we all know, Wendy, borders are arbitrary. And Canada lives in my heart. So I'm a Toronto, I'm a West Side Toronto boy above all, and that will never go away. That's why I'm always back in Toronto. I still live there. I still do stuff there.

Wendy Mesley  17:21  
Well, what is the attraction of LA? Because before you explained about how it's broken, and Toronto's going there, and whatever. I was thinking it was all about- you get- you get great guests on on your show. And you have a motorcycle. So I think there's a little bit of- a little bit of that.

Maureen Holloway  17:37  
Those are some good reasons to be there. Yeah.

George Stroumboulopoulos  17:39  
The number one reason to be in LA is the weather. 

Maureen Holloway  17:42  
Hey, by the way, in Toronto right now, 18 degrees today.

Wendy Mesley  17:46  
So move. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  17:47  
It's probably better than here. What is it here? It's 19 Celsius here today. But no, listen, it's the weather. It's the motorcycles. It's funny you bring that up. That's an enormous reason why I came to LA. And also, this is an amazing place where a lot of people traveled to be creative. And so it's a lot easier for me to find people who are down to do things and, and try to make stuff happen. This is a place where a lot of people move to so that we can kind of build things together. I love it. But when I started the talk show in Canada at CBC, I would come down here every weekend with a stack of DVDs. And I would go to all these publicists office and I would sit with all their publicists. And I would play them clips from our show. And then we would go through their list. And I would tell them who I want on our show who I wanted, but they shouldn't give to me and who weren't ready for our show. And I really I just really shoe leather, the whole thing. We got all those guests because a we had an amazing team. But the I came down here and I built relationships with people. So that and they would tell me we don't have a lot of hosts showing up at our office. And I said, Well, I'm you know, I'm a particular kind of fella. So let's make it happen. And that's- that's how we- you know that CBC show was 20 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, except for when I was on my cross country motorcycle trips trying to unwind from the season. But it was like that, and it still is like that for me. 

Wendy Mesley  19:07  
Well, and you get- you get amazing people on. Matty Matheson, like we were- he's a friend of a friend sort of. And so I was like, hey, well, Matty, come- like no.

Maureen Holloway  19:15  
We were late to the table.

Wendy Mesley  19:17  
He's too big. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  19:19  
Matty and I just were at a motorcycle show together in Palm Springs. So we were having dinner, we were talking. I've known Matty a long- I've known Matty back to the Alexisonfire days in the very beginning of that scene. It's actually kind of amazing to see what- what that era of broadcasters have been able to do. And people and parents have been able to do that little arts community, man, he's amazing. You know, we you build relationships. But I'm very upfront with people when I talked to them. Just lots of cats wanted to be on our show. And I would just tell them, I don't think you should because you're not. You're not really ready to be public and real. Like this is still orchestrated, and this is still PR, and I'm not really er, sometimes you would do it to play the game, but that's not where I'm 51 I'm not doing that now.

Maureen Holloway  19:59  
That's young by talk show host standards.

George Stroumboulopoulos  20:02  
Weirdly it is, right? But yeah, I was very lucky to get a lot of people. We had an amazing talent booking team, too, on that show. A world class talent booking team that helped build this.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  20:15  
The women of Ill Repute. 

Maureen Holloway  20:18  
Who would you like to talk to now? That you haven't, obviously.

George Stroumboulopoulos  20:21  
The pope. Neil Young.

Maureen Holloway  20:23  
Never Neil Young?

George Stroumboulopoulos  20:24  
Never Neil Young. I really want to talk to Neil Young. I really want to interview- I love Neil Young and Bob Dylan. Dylan and Neil are kind of my- you know, and Tom Waits in the music world. I've been lucky enough to interview John Prine and Patti Smith and the other gods in my life, and Chuck D and Tom Morello. I've done all that. But Neil and Bob and Tom would be for music. There's- they're the ones I want to talk to. In terms of the rest of the world, I'd like to have a sit down with the Pope. I think that would be interesting.

Maureen Holloway  20:52  
You're a Buddhist, aren't you?

George Stroumboulopoulos  20:53  
No, not really. But I read it. I read it. I love Buddhism. 

Maureen Holloway  20:56  
When you raised a Catholic, or? 

George Stroumboulopoulos  20:58  
Well, yes, yeah. So the running joke in my family is we were Catholics. And then my mother found God. Right? My mother is an- is an Evangelical, she's very, very faith based. And I went to a Catholic school as a kid. And I suspect, I believed in it, but I think I just needed it took me a long time to kind of, you know, dig up the roots of after I cut down the tree. And so I don't have any of that in my life now. And not to sound like a yoga mom running a wellness Instagram account. But I actually believe in kindness. And I think that's my, the thing I want to go for. And it's an it's not a it's not a place of being it's an act. So that's whatever spiritual connection anybody has, if their kindness for that, I want to talk to them. You're really tight with your mom. Right? Yeah, my mom and I are really, really close. We have nothing in common. We can't talk politics or religion, we have nothing in common. But we just have this tenderness towards each other. You know, I was raised by a single mom, she was I think, only 19. When she got the news about me, my dad split when I think my mom was 24 I have a younger sister. So it was like us against the world. And but what was interesting about the us against the world model is my mother always told me that it's not that way, that it doesn't matter what your situation is, your job is to be there for other people always. And she told me as as I got older, that she had no idea what she was doing. As a mom, she was just doing anything, to keep me out of trouble. And to try to keep us being nice. That was her whole thing. But she was a baby to my mom was a baby with no education, traditional education. But my grandmother's was a legend, you know, coming over here from Poland at the time escaping a couple of not just the Nazis, but also the Soviets and just, I grew up around some women that were just can't mess with them and my sister, so and then, you know, I get to work at MuchMusic and I'm working with a woman called Tanya Natyev and Denise Donlin and, like my god, I- so they- so to me, I was just around a world of just a lot of badass women. And they helped me understand my mom a little bit more, right, as I got older. But yeah, my mom and I were really tight. 

Wendy Mesley  23:03  
I had forgotten about your- I was raised by single mom. And when I turned 24 and realized that she had me at 24, I was like, holy shit. 24? You're a baby. But- but she raised me on- on her own, and I had forgotten about how your- your dad, he really kind of like just disappeared when you were- you were a kid. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  23:21  
I was sitting at home and I watched him walk down the stairs with a suitcase and his blue suit on, and then he walked out the door. And that was the end of it. And I think I've seen him three or f- I've seen him about maybe four or five times in the 45 years. But I have no ill will whatsoever towards my dad. My dad was 24, 25. So he was a kid too. And I think you know, he was working at the Ford assembly line where my grandfather worked, the man I'm named after. And I think he probably looked down the assembly line and saw his dad, and would go home at night and saw his wife with two little kids. And I think he just fucking panicked, probably, and just thought oh my god, this is my life. And I think he panicked. And which is by the way, fine. I have no complaints about my upbringing. I know that people, everybody's allowed to have their own experience. And they talk a lot about trauma in their childhood. I've experienced all that stuff that you would read about in newspapers, but I think how you react to it is really crucial. And for me, my mother said to me from the very beginning, he would say this, you're never going to grow up and have daddy issues, because it's not important, but also sometimes people who love you don't know how to, and they go, and that's okay, too. The cavalry ain't coming. This is your job to figure it out. You're not alone.

Wendy Mesley  24:42  
She was wise. Oh my god. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  24:45  
Oh, dude. She wrote a poem on the back of a movie poster that I stole. And she wrote a poem and she put it on the back of the door of my house. And every time I left the house, probably from when I was, I don't know like 12 to 17, she would put her arm around me and make me recite the poem out loud. Before I would leave the house. And it was, I have to live with myself. And so I have to be fit for myself to know. I want to sit with the setting sun and not hate myself for the things I have done. I want to stand as the days go by and be able to look the world straight in the eye. She- and she made me do that all the time. So when I would go out into the street, and maybe get- and I would definitely- like, it did not take. Took a long time for that poem to take. I caused a lot of carnage in my- in my young days. But eventually, I realized, oh, I'm the guy that's reading that poem. And he's so sweet to his mom. And I'm not that sweet out here. And I think everybody has this, I think men and women, whatever your gender is, you have it. But men particularly don't have, we don't get taught how to deal with this, but there's the guy you think you are. And then there's the guy you actually are. But most guys don't have the mechanism to get the guy you think you are to be, you know, to get to that guy, we usually go the other way. So my mom put a lot of foundational things into my brain that made me realize you if this is who you think you are, and you're not that you better move this guy over here, because because it's an act, you have to be actively engaging in being a better person. And that was all that stuff that my mom put into my head when I was 13. That actually I think she wishes the religion took, but- because at that time Slayer and Metallica were out. So I was obviously I'd made my choice. And then- but yeah, a lot of what she taught me took, so- like my- my relationship with my mom is- I couldn't be more lucky than to have the one that I have.

Maureen Holloway  26:36  
Have you ever wanted to be a parent yourself?

George Stroumboulopoulos  26:38  
Oh, never. It's funny. I think there was a time when I was maybe 18 or 19 where I thought I was going to be one. 

Maureen Holloway  26:46  
That's never- that's never- at that age. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  26:48  
No. And then she called me and she's like, no, we're not. And I was like, okay, thank God, maybe I was 19 or 20. And that was the only time where in my head. I thought it was a prospect. And I thought okay, well if that's the case, then that nobody will do what you have to do to be a great dad. I didn't have a father so but I certainly grew up around, like my Uncle Paul. And the man who ended up marrying my mother, a guy called Lon, I grew up around really- my other Uncle Paul, a couple of amazing men who had this kind of sense of duty, but also the dignity in the working class and, and the power of being strong people in your neighborhood. So I did grow up around strong women, but I had great male role models in my neighborhood, the kinds of guys that- where all the kids would show up and play at their house and you never had to worry. They're great in Rexdale and Multan. So I had these great men, so I just knew what great men should do. When I thought I was gonna have a kid. But when she told me the news that we weren't having a kid, it was like, well, I'm never doing that again. Like, I'm never gonna be in that situation.

Wendy Mesley  27:46  
Well, surprise.

George Stroumboulopoulos  27:49  
So, no, I never wanted to have kids. I've never found that to be particularly-

Maureen Holloway  27:53  
It's not for everybody. In fact, some would argue it's not for most people.

George Stroumboulopoulos  27:57  
Totally. I used to joke on our CBC show, the radio show, that my philosophy is every child left behind, but one. I just care about the one kid who needs to hear this song today. And also parents have this, you know, built in need to protect their family. And my job is to make sure that all your kids listen to good music, not just one family's, not just my own. So I feel like I- I'm trying to raise kids with great music. Anyway. So that was my- that was the only thing that I really wanted kids for, was to just pass on music tastes. That's it.

Maureen Holloway  28:26  
Which you do. Thanks, Uncle George.

Wendy Mesley  28:29  
So you mentioned Slayer and Metallica, and yet you're also a vegan and you're- you endorse something called a straight edge lifestyle. So you don't sleep, you don't drink, you don't- you don't do any of the- Like the fun stuff.

George Stroumboulopoulos  28:42  
I have no vices. I have no vices.

Maureen Holloway  28:44  
No, but sleeping's not a vice.

George Stroumboulopoulos  28:46  
No no, I do sleep now. I sleep a little better than I used to. Not great, but I sleep a little better than I used to. Yeah, no booze, no drugs, no meat, no dairy. I barely gamble. I'm a viceless man. And I'm a vice full man, like I- How would I say it, I- I respect the laws of nature and I suppress my own. My own nature is to be incredibly reckless, and I don't care. So I've had to build guardrails into my life, to keep myself alive and to keep myself moving at the pace that I want.

Maureen Holloway  29:14  
And you still listen to Slayer. Just straight.

George Stroumboulopoulos  29:17  
On cassette. There's my Slayer cassette and my Metallica cassette from when I was like- I got this- I bought these bootleg tapes when I was a kid. This is a second version of it. Ride the Lightning. I think I was 11 when I got this. This one I was maybe 12 when I got this, this is called Haunting the Chapel.

Maureen Holloway  29:33  
These are actual cassettes for those of you who can't see us, that's pretty impressive. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  29:37  
I have cassettes and 8 tracks and records and digital. Yeah, I love extreme music. I love extreme art. I don't want any music or film or anything in my life to make me feel safe. I want everything to be dangerous. I want to feel despondent afterwards. I don't want to be protected or preserved in any way by outside forces. I want to have the ability to process everything thrown at me and be fine. So anything dangerous comes my way, I process it. When I go through heavy, heavy, you know, traumatic events, I don't run from them. You be like the bison, you walk into the storm, because I know that I have the mettle to survive it. So I want to listen to things that are uncomfortable. I want to watch things that challenge me. I don't want anything about my existence to be safe. I don't think that's a good idea. For most people. I don't advocate this lifestyle, but it's for me, it is for me. And yeah, so I still have all the danger. But I just figured, and I'm not super straight edge in that I will drink coffee, I'll have- I'll have caffeine.

Wendy Mesley  30:35  
Oh, wow, we're really on the edge there. 

Maureen Holloway  30:37  
Stand back. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  30:37  
Well, straight edge people, like the OG straight edgers. It's booze, drugs and sex. And I'm not giving that up. So I just want to be clean, as clean as I can possibly be. Which is what I've got, because it'll keep me alive longer. And I really think life's a gift. And I- and I've been so privileged in my life as a- as an adult. But even as a kid, just knowing the people and having the riches experience that I have, I think it would do a real disservice to my grandmother, and the effort she put in if I blew myself up. So I kind of really want to do this and live for the family in a way.

Maureen Holloway  31:07  
You're very nice man, George. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  31:09  
Oh, no, no, no, I- 

Maureen Holloway  31:10  
Don't argue with me.

George Stroumboulopoulos  31:13  
Thank you. I'm just really grateful that my brain chemistry didn't betray me. And I know brain chemistry can cause a lot of problems for people in their lives. And, and I- my heart goes for them. And I love- so much love. But my brain chemistry didn't betray me. I don't have anxiety. I don't- I don't- and if I feel anxious or have those moments, I had this like colossal motorcycle accident a long time ago. And it really rewired my brain. And it was when I was doing that talk show. And I had some I had, I was going through things emotionally that I, I didn't know how to process because like this is all new. I'd really wrecked my brain into skin this accident, because I left the hospital with a broken bone and no painkillers. And I went straight to the CBC when I did the red chair show. And I had no painkillers in me. And for six months while my bones were healing, and my brain was spinning. I did the show every day. And it rewired me in a way that will never be the same. And I am so stupid that I did it that way. 

Wendy Mesley  32:10  
And it's a good thing? 

George Stroumboulopoulos  32:11  
No, it was terrible. It was awful. 

Wendy Mesley  32:13  
No, but you came out rewired? 

George Stroumboulopoulos  32:15  
Yeah, well. So what happened was, I was sitting at an airport, I woke up in a parking lot of a motel. And I don't know what happened. My brain had passed out because I had so much post concussion syndrome that I passed out. And I was I remember being this motel room, I don't know, I was in the motel room. And I checked in with cash, not with my real name. I was I was on this motorcycle adventure, and I didn't want to be found. So I was on this adventure. And I'm stupid. And I'm Gen X. I'm like, I'm gonna pay cash. I'm not giving you my name. And it was one of those motels where you could do it. But then I had this real post concussion moment in the hotel room where I thought, Oh, shit, they're never gonna like it'll take them two weeks before they find my body. So I, I stumbled out into the parking lot wearing only my boxer shorts. And I passed out in the parking lot, because I couldn't I couldn't keep it. I couldn't my brain wasn't working. And I woke up, I think 15 or 20 minutes later. And this is what I love about the abandoned parts of the United States is I laid in the parking lot for 15 to 20 minutes. And nobody saw me. It was amazing. He just, I totally and I came to and I thought, Oh, wow, that's not good. I need to figure out what's happening here. And I was like, I gotta go to the doctor, I gotta figure this out. So I get back to my hotel, my motel room, which is like six feet away. And the next morning, I carry on the motorcycle adventure, and I was on a racetrack. And I was really trembling. I was really trembling. And then I had to go right, I drove back to Los Angeles, and went to the airport to fly back to Toronto to do the show. So I'm sitting in the airport lounge, like just the gate. And this guy sits beside me who I recognized because he was a hockey player that I grew up watching. And we started talking. And I asked him what he was doing in LA. And he said he's had a lot of concussions. And so he's been going through this. He's been being studied, his brain is being studied. And I said to him, can I talk to you about something? And he said, Sure. So I sat there with his hockey player that had only met maybe once or twice before. And I explained to him what's going on in my brain? And he said to me, yeah, so everything you're feeling is real. It's happening to your brain. It's happened to be this and he started to walk me through it. And then I said, What do I do? And he says, Well, it kind of depends on how you're built. He said, But here's what you do. Just lay back and let it happen because it can't kill you. So whatever. That's exactly the kind of advice that works for me. So there were when I was doing the talk show, and for a while, people were in good fun, making fun of how casual I wasn't how leaning I was on things. Part of the reason I was doing that was because I was actually just casual and Leaney but part of the reason is when I was standing up doing some of those talk show segments, and I would lean hard on the desk, it's because I was gonna pass out. And what I would do is I would, I would just- you know the bright lights and concussions, bright lights, stupid. So I would say to myself, it's a wave, let it happen. And I was quoting him all the time, let it happen, let it happen. And I really started to enjoy it. So now when it happens, because it still happens from time to time, I don't pass out anymore. But I have moments where it's a bit, I get a bit, whoa, okay, what's going on here? I just go. Alright, let it happen. And I feel great. So he really rewired my brain in that way. But that being said, I would much rather not have this enlightenment, I would much rather not have the injury in the first place.

Maureen Holloway  35:37  
You don't recommend it, right?

George Stroumboulopoulos  35:39  
No. I think I've had six concussions. But like four of them were-  were not serious. But the problem is, it just- it just compounds, right. So yeah, so my brain is definitely rewired. And I work really hard to keep it as healthy as I possibly can. Because it just was- it was just stupid, what I did.

Wendy Mesley  35:58  
Well, whatever you're doing, it's working. So George, we gotta wrap but I loved hearing you talk about- about your mom, because I was raised by, you know, a mom who was divorced when she was very, very young, when she was 25. And and everyone said, oh, you're from a broken home, broken, broken, broken, and you're not broken. So- maybe you're a bit broken. We all are, but- but you're not. So it's great.

Maureen Holloway  36:23  
It amazes me, Wendy and George, how many people- we've been doing this show for two years now, we've probably talked to about 80 or 90 people- how many of them are either single children or were raised by single parents. I would say a remarkable percentage of these incredibly successful or not even successful, happy, interesting people that we've talked to.

George Stroumboulopoulos  36:43  
When I did that talk show, same thing. I noticed that it was a lot of people figured it out. I don't know how old I was when I heard the term broken home. But I thought- I looked at the description of a broken home. And I said, yeah, but that's not how I- it's not my experience, because I think- and maybe this is the secret to the way I view the world, is I never grew up trusting any institution. So I don't trust police. I don't trust governments. I don't trust broadcasters. I don't trust schools. I don't trust courts. So I never grew up trusting them. I used to see horses and think they were cops. So I don't- I never grew up in a world where I looked at institutions as if they owed me anything. I never looked at Canada and trusted Canada as a thing. So when the world caught on fire, and everybody started panicking about the state of the world, I just looked at them. I said, How is any of this a surprise to you? And then I realized it's because they're mostly listening to the wrong music. Because the music I grew up listening to told me that the world was like this, right? And, and so to me, instead of taking that distrust or taking that dissonance that I felt, and like, of course when I'm 15, and I was angry about it, but I thought well, why don't I just take all the stuff that I don't believe in and use it as fuel to maybe try to make it better for the next wave? If I can, in whatever capacity I can do it. Sometimes. That's why introducing them to a subject. Sometimes it's by challenging a political leader. Sometimes it's just by showing them they're not alone. But to me, it was I don't have any expectations of the system, because the system has never, ever, ever been on our side. And democracy is really messed up now. But we don't really have. We have crony capitalism, and we have, we have economic democracy. And we've only really had it for a short period of time, relatively speaking. I mean, childhood didn't start till the 1950s. Right before that kid, kids were in minds. So this is relatively new in the big picture here. And in fact, the people who came up with the concept of democracy didn't believe that everybody had an equal vote. So it's really new in a relative sense. So if I remove my expectations, from the experience, then I just have a job to do. And I'm sure you've picked up both of you when you interviewed people picked up interesting tidbits from them. And I remember, I was so lucky to have a dinner once with Neil Armstrong. And he told me, because he kept describing going to the moon as I'm just a technician going to the job site. And that really haunts me. And he said, because if I looked at it any other way, the task would be too overwhelming. And I wouldn't be able to do the job that I was there to do and I went right, bro. That's how you approach- 

Wendy Mesley  39:15  
Yeah, well, let's like it won't kill me. We gotta let you go, George, because we're almost out of time. But oh my god, you're an amazing guy. And it's lovely, lovely to see you here.

Maureen Holloway  39:23  
Hopefully you get that other Neil one day too. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  39:25  
Oh my god, can you imagine?

Wendy Mesley  39:26  
Oh, Neil Young?

George Stroumboulopoulos  39:28  
Listen to After the Gold Rush, it's one of the greatest songs ever written. 

Maureen Holloway  39:30  
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you, George. 

George Stroumboulopoulos  39:33  
Nice to see both.

Wendy Mesley  39:34  
Yeah. So lovely to see you.

George Stroumboulopoulos  39:36  
Thank you. 

Maureen Holloway  39:39  
Well. 

Wendy Mesley  39:40  
Yeah, it's true. Canada's boyfriend, but is- he's just George, really. He's just Strombo. He's- I want him to have kids

Maureen Holloway  39:48  
He clearly does not want to have any, for, you know- 

Wendy Mesley  39:53  
His own good reasons. Yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  39:55  
When he said off the top, and I never want to forget this. He says he's not self conscious, and he never has been, and that, as much as anything, would be the key to his- not only his success, but his likability. That he really is engaged in his guests without thinking, you know, well, how do I come across? And that's rare. I mean, that's also- you could also describe a complete narcissist that way. But he's the opposite. He see- he is just so enthusiastic about people and life and- without being starry eyed. Pretty compelling.

Wendy Mesley  40:30  
He's a very unique character. I think, in terms of like, he doesn't- he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke. He now says that he sleeps, when I- when I knew him many, many years ago and worked closely with him. He didn't sleep and he was just super, super driven, but driven in a good way so it's- I don't know either. Maybe he's a narcissist, but he covers it well, because he obviously cares. 

Maureen Holloway  40:53  
Oh, I don't think he is.

Wendy Mesley  40:54  
He cares about other people. He really cares, and- and he remembers everything. So I want him to have kids. I want more Georges.

Maureen Holloway  41:05  
Well, that's your takeaway. Well, I want him to be one of my 150 people that I have connections with, and I think we both achieved that. So that was great. 

Wendy Mesley  41:16  
Talk soon. 

Maureen Holloway  41:17  
Talk soon. Bye.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  41:19  
Women of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.