Erika Casupanan “Sole Survivor”

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of Ill Repute. With your hosts, Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway.

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
All right, we're gonna let you in on a little intel today. This is absolutely true. A while back, The Amazing Race Canada put out a casting call for their latest season. And I got this bee in my bonnet. And I- I suggested- actually, I think I tried to persuade Wendy, that we audition.

Wendy Mesley  0:26  
Yeah, the persuasion didn't go too far. I- I said no. And I blamed it, I think at the time- which was partially true. I blamed it on, could I take my special pillow? I couldn't do it because I couldn't take my special pillow.

Maureen Holloway  0:41  
That speaks volumes. But also I still maintain we would have been picked, because you know. 

Wendy Mesley  0:47  
Well, of course. 

Maureen Holloway  0:48  
Well, because look at us. But also- highly competitive. But you, you're the one- you're the one that races down ski hills and goes windsurfing and all that, you could do all the physical stuff. I'm more of a cocktails on the dock, everybody, I think we would have been contenders. But there were more reasons not to do it, even though I think we would have been hilarious.

Wendy Mesley  1:08  
There were no cocktails involved. So no special pillow, no cocktails, but you know what, I think they actually want more than- than I could give them. So I think they want people who have, like, watched the show from childbirth on, and they want people to be enthusiastic. And I don't- I don't think we would have won.

Maureen Holloway  1:26  
Well, we didn't try out. It's all about we- well our guest this week is someone who does have what it takes to win at one of the most intense and popular reality show competitions ever. Erica Casupanan- I will see if I pronounced that correctly- is the Survivor. She's the sole survivor of Survivor season 41, which took place right at the tail end of the pandemic in Fiji. She is the first Canadian. She's the first person of Filipino descent. She's the first LGBTQ contestant of color. She's an all round winner on all sorts of levels.

Wendy Mesley  1:57  
And she's from Niagara Falls, like hello? They gave her the key to the city. And before that she was at Media Profile. I know lots about- They go way, way back. She was a communications manager there. And she gave that job up to compete on Survivor and she won.

Maureen Holloway  2:16  
And how did she do it? Well, she's smart, she's athletic, she's determined, all those things. But Erika said that she's often underestimated and she works that in her favor. Remember, now. You may not know this, Wendy. The goals of Survivor are to outwit, outplay and outlast.

Wendy Mesley  2:31  
Yeah, so maybe I should reconsider. Anyway, I do- I do want to know, some of the details of competing from Erika, I want to know about hygiene challenges. And I want to know- I- we're not supposed to mention this I don't think, there were camera crews there, right? So- 

Maureen Holloway  2:48  
Yes, of course there were camera crews. 

Wendy Mesley  2:49  
So that's how you see it. Oooh so now I got it. So anyway, where do they hang out? But my big question is, can anyone compete with a special pillow?

Maureen Holloway  3:06  
Oh, I don't think so. But here to answer those questions and more, the remarkable Erika. Am I pronouncing your last name properly? 

Erika Casupanan  3:13  
Hi, I say it Casupanan. 

Maureen Holloway  3:15  
Then it is Casupanan. All right, then. Welcome. It's such a pleasure to have you.

Erika Casupanan  3:19  
Thank you. I am happy to be here, and I feel like I have some bad news about that special pillow to share. 

Wendy Mesley  3:25  
Wuh-oh, I couldn't take it? 

Erika Casupanan  3:27  
You would not be- sorry. Either- people are shocked when I tell them you literally get nothing. You get your machete, you get your pot. You- you find things in the woods to make shelter, but you really get nothing. 

Wendy Mesley  3:40  
And what about going to the bathroom? 

Erika Casupanan  3:42  
Okay, so that's the question I got the most. So there's two questions, I figure I should just address them from the top, that people would ask me the most. So number one is what happens when you want to go to the bathroom? So you- for number one, you can kind of just go anywhere. Usually the tribe decides this is the spot where we're gonna go to the bathroom, but then for number two, they recommend that you go in the ocean and do something called an aqua dump, and I know that that sounds gross, but it's probably the cleanest way to go, because at least you're in the ocean. Your toilet paper is wet sand. But then when it's nighttime and it's so dark you're not allowed to go into the ocean, and that's when you have to dig a hole and use leaves, and you don't want to do that. Leaves are not absorbent, like you do not want to do that. So you should go in the ocean during the daytime.

Maureen Holloway  4:28  
I love- this is all the stuff I've always wanted to know. So- so you're basically- you're- you're in a bathing suit all the time, right, and a few strategically placed scarves depending on your tribe and what have you. Are you given more than one of them? Like what- when you say literally nothing, what's your- what's your wardrobe?

Erika Casupanan  4:46  
Well you do get some clothes, and I wish that I had a bathing suit, but then a few years ago, they took away bathing suits so it's truly just your bra and your underwear. So you do get like a few sets of clothes that you can wear, like something that is better for doing challenges. And then you get something that you can wear at camp. And then if you're into fashion, you can mix and match and get creative. But you do get some clothes. Yeah, it's not Naked and Afraid. That's not a show I'm not going to do. 

Wendy Mesley  5:10  
So I want to know when you were pooping in the in the ocean, where were the- were the camera crews there? I mean, we never see- we never see the real stuff, right?

Erika Casupanan  5:19  
Well, if you're going to the bathroom, you- you can't have a camera crew follow you, obviously. So there are rules about how you can only go to the bathroom by yourself, because they don't want you strategizing as you're going number two, and the camera crews can't capture it. But then there's often code words that people use. So if you are going to the bathroom and going to number two or something, you usually say that you're going to the coconut tree, and that's just so it doesn't ruin any of the footage for the viewers. So now if you go back and you watch any old seasons, and you hear someone talking about the coconut tree, they're not talking about a tree, they're talking about something.

Maureen Holloway  5:56  
Ah, so the crew's with you all the time right? At night, the whole bit. And yet they have a hands off- and this- there have been many incidences throughout the seasons of Survivor where there has had to be interventions, and we hear about it usually later. But how hands off are they really? I mean, do you have- do you have any interaction with them?

Erika Casupanan  6:17  
I mean, it's still a produced TV show. So you'll have a producer there telling you like, okay, it's time to get ready and go to the challenge. But when you're just living at camp, it's truly just camera crew teams following you around. And you get really used to them being there. Like it's really weird to get used to them being there, but they're not supposed to talk to you. So for me, it was such a weird moment, because after I had won the show, and they announced I was the winner. Then we filmed the reunion on the spot, which is something they had never done before. Then all of a sudden, it became like this party on the tribal council set. And all of these camera crew people who I had seen for the last month who I wasn't allowed to talk to who never talked to me, so I didn't know what their voices sound like. All of a sudden, they're coming up and talking to me. And they know all this stuff about me, because they had been watching me for the last month. And I'm like, this is the weirdest thing ever. Because I forget that we're- we're people and we can talk to each other.

Maureen Holloway  7:09  
What was your- and Wendy's not- she's not as familiar with Survivor as I am, which is why I'm probably in cornering the conversation here. So out of all the challenges that you faced, and some you sat out and some of them you won, obviously you won the biggest, what were the ones that were the most daunting for you, the most challenging?

Erika Casupanan  7:27  
Ooh, there was one that I thought we weren't going to finish, it was so tough. So it was one that was later in the season, it was a reward challenge where there were six people left, but they put us onto two teams of three randomly. And it was like a water challenge where you're supposed to- it's kind of like a basketball element, where someone is shooting the ball into the net. And then the other two people are in the water, catching the ball, and then throwing it back to the person in case they don't get it into the net. So it's lots of swimming. And at that point, we are so deprived, we hadn't eaten all day, the description of the challenge they gave us in the tree mail did not sound like it was going to be a water challenge. So I remember we were doing that challenge for what felt like a really long time, and no one was getting close to getting their ball into the net. And I'm thinking there is no way, there's no way we're ever going to finish this. But eventually my- my team ended up winning, I think one guy threw the ball towards the net. And then me and the other guy were in the water just like started pulling the net and swimming it closer to the bollocks. We're like, we have to- we have to stop doing this somehow. But I don't think I ever remember being so tired in my life before.

Maureen Holloway  8:36  
And starving. 

Erika Casupanan  8:37  
Oh, yeah. 

Wendy Mesley  8:37  
I'm really fascinated by the how- the whole outwit thing and- and- and you've written- you do a podcast now about- about how people sort of underestimated you. And I find that really fascinating, that that's- that you- you took all of these sort of- I'm- I'm watching and I'm listening and I know how to play this, but I'm not going to let people know. Like did you know that going in? Like how did you- how did you decide what your- because I know you love the show. So you probably just wanted to be on the show because it's cool. But you also wanted to win. So how did- how did you figure that out?

Maureen Holloway  9:12  
What was your MO?

Erika Casupanan  9:13  
I mean, of course to win for sure. And then I just knew from the experiences I had in life, right? I know we're talking over video right now, but I'm actually quite a petite woman. So I'm five feet tall. I have this little purple hair cut. I'm an Asian woman, I think I have a deep voice in my head. But when I hear my voice, I'm like, okay, I have a higher pitched voice. So I think I got really used to, for better or for worse, the experience of being in situations where I'd show up so prepared, I'd show up ready and knowing my stuff, and then having people assume that I was younger than I was, or less experienced than I was, or had less authority than I did. And so many situations where I'd be in business meetings and I would be there to run the meeting and people would think I was the intern and they thought I was just there to print out the agenda. So- 

Maureen Holloway  10:05  
Go get some coffee. 

Erika Casupanan  10:05  
Exactly, yeah, I got- I've gotten so many coffee orders in my day. And I've just stared back confused. So hopefully- hopefully those people now they can kind of laugh about it later. But I had always had this experience of people just thinking that I was not the person that I know that I am inside. And then when it comes to survivor, what's so important, it's not just the surviving outside piece, it's not just the challenges piece, but it's really the mix of the social and strategic approach. And part of being good at that part of the game is understanding how people perceive you. So I thought, okay, even though it was a disadvantage to me in so much of my life that people underestimate me and think that I'm just this cute little girl, I'm going to use that at my advantage here. So I am going to navigate the game by downplaying the threat level that I have, and downplaying the ability that I have, and then hopefully fly under the radar so that I can rise up at the correct time to come out in the end and win. 

Wendy Mesley  11:07  
But didn't people figure that out? Like, didn't they go, hmm, okay. She- Erika managed to get ahead in this. So maybe there's something going on? Did they ever, like figure it out? Like, I just find it fascinating that you arrange for people to get voted out, and then you still want them to like you.

Erika Casupanan  11:26  
Yes, that's the hard part of the show, right? And there were definitely people who had me on their radar. If you watch the season, you'll see that people were talking about me the whole time. But I was just never the number one threat to get rid of, I'd always figure out a way to make sure I wasn't at the top, or to figure out a way to stay. So hey, yeah, maybe they figured it out. But they couldn't execute on it. And then they ended up voting for me in the end.

Wendy Mesley  11:49  
And they liked you. 

Maureen Holloway  11:52  
Wendy, in Survivor, one of the things they do is like, you're- you have two teams or three teams, halfway through- or not, it's not even halfway through, you don't know, the teams blend. So your opponent will become your ally, and your ally will become your opponent. So it's really- it is really complex. I mean, it's almost military strategies, you have to figure out who you can count on until the end when you stab them in the back.

Wendy Mesley  12:18  
Yeah, but it sounds like you stabbed them in the back during the process too. And- and yet, when they- when they came on your team, they- they loved you, or- when did people figure it out? 

Maureen Holloway  12:28  
You were- you were- I forget what the statistic was, but you were the person that had the most support as a winner, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not putting it well.

Erika Casupanan  12:37  
Yeah, so I think that as a woman winner, I'm tied for like the highest percentage of votes to win. But I don't know, I know there's lots of Survivor statisticians out there. So I'm sorry if I said the wrong stat, but, and I also- I voted correctly at every tribal council. So everybody I voted for got sent home. So all the people who voted for me to win, I also voted for 100% of them to go home. 

Maureen Holloway  13:01  
Wow. 

Erika Casupanan  13:02  
But it's such an interesting balancing act in that game, where in order to get the votes from people, it's like, everyone who's there, they're a fan of the show, they want to know that you play and that you have some type of agency when it comes to who goes home. So they want people who are voting them out. But then they also want people who, in some ways, validate their view of the game. So trying to pitch for yourself to win at the end is such an interesting balance of understanding how they see me, understanding how they see themselves, explaining to them the game that I played, and explaining to them that I executed against the plan that I had, and that that validates how they view themselves and their game, but then also changes their view of me. It's like such a weird balancing act. And I think that that's something that I developed, again, through being underestimated, and being in lots of situations where I'm like, okay, this person that I'm talking to is not going to take me at face value. So I have to figure out how I can navigate getting what I want from this interaction. So yeah, all those weird uncomfortable moments in my life leading up to it ended up paying off.

Wendy Mesley  14:11  
Wow, it's so interesting, even the people who did the the editing or the shooting, they didn't figure it out, right? Because from what I've read, from the first- the first half of the show, you're like invisible, it's like they didn't figure out you're gonna be the winner. And then that Erika was going to win the big prize in the end.

Erika Casupanan  14:29  
Yeah, that's something that was definitely a topic of conversation around my win. And this is where I have to rely on those Survivor statisticians who love to look at the visibility of different winners. So for whatever reason, there just tends to be less screen time for winners who are women or BIPOC. So unfortunately, I was just part of that statistic for whatever reason. So yeah, it was such a complicated experience after because, on one side, I had achieved this big goal that I had since I was a kid, and on the other side, then I'm dealing with people in the audience and fans online who were confused, and even at times myself, who was confused watching it back, where I'm like, what? I knew I earned that but then what went on? So it's- yeah, it was such a complicated experience after because of that.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  15:22  
The Women of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  15:24  
Now, they revealed you as the winner in situ on the island. And- but you're- so your family- How did that all happen? Because they would- they would not have known, right?

Erika Casupanan  15:35  
I was the first season since season one, where they announced the winner on the island. And I remember when we had finished pitching for ourselves at the final tribal council, and everyone's going to vote, I'm thinking, okay, thank God, this is over in like 10 minutes, we're going to stop filming, and I can just go eat a sandwich. So I was shocked when they told us that they were going to announce the votes right away, and that I knew that I was the winner. And I just remember coming home. And it was that time during COVID, where if you enter the country, you have to go to an airport hotel. So I'm sitting in this little hotel for four days, and I'm trying to process what has happened to me. And then I thought, you know what, I'm going to keep this a secret. I want my family and my friends to go on this journey. So I didn't tell anybody, except for my therapist, that I was the winner until they saw the episode air and they saw that I was the winner.

How long was that? How long was the lead time between the two? 

So I came home in May. And then my finale aired in December.

Maureen Holloway  16:36  
Holy smokes, and you won a million dollars? US? 

Erika Casupanan  16:39  
Yes.

Maureen Holloway  16:40  
So you couldn't tell anybody about that? That's a whole other question. What would you do if you won a million dollars? Do you- do we pay tax on it as Canadians? 

Erika Casupanan  16:48  
Uhh, that's a conversation I only have with my accountants and lawyers.

Maureen Holloway  16:53  
Fair enough. But it is a substantial amount. And you kept it quiet. And then your family found out while watching the show.

Erika Casupanan  17:00  
Yeah. And also it's not like I got the million as soon as I won and as soon as filming ended, I had to wait until the show finish airing. So I just sat there for months thinking, oh, I'm about to be a millionaire.

Wendy Mesley  17:12  
So now you have the money. We'll- we'll call your accountant and find out exactly how much afterwards. You're buying shoes or something? Or are you being quasi-serious with- with some of it?

Erika Casupanan  17:23  
I bought like a nice pair of shoes, like a pair of shoes that I don't think I ever would buy in any other situation, you know, like a nice bag. So I did treat myself to some things. I did do some traveling, like I'm a big Kpop fan. So I treated my sister and sister in law to go see BTS in Las Vegas. So I've done some things like that. But otherwise, I know this sounds so boring to the listeners, but it's like, it's invested. And I'm thinking about being responsible.

Maureen Holloway  17:51  
It's not boring. It was good advice. So which brings me to our next question. We asked you all these questions about the physical requirements to get through the whole thing, you know?

Wendy Mesley  18:03  
Pooping.

Maureen Holloway  18:03  
Yes, pooping. And being hungry, very hungry all the time. But what have you taken from that in terms of, you know, you went in there knowing yourself really well, you pray- probably came out knowing yourself even better. So how have you applied that to what is now the rest of your life? 

Erika Casupanan  18:22  
I would say I have two big lessons that I got from it. So in terms of actually filming the show, realizing that I can do anything. There was a point during the show where I got sent to this place called Exile Island. It is as terrible as it sounds, where I got sent to an island by myself to live there for two days and two nights, it poured rain both nights. And my nightmare was being sent there one night, and I had to do two nights. So I was terrified to go, and you can see it in the show. You could see it in my eyes. My friends and family had never seen me look that scared before in my life. So I was terrified. But then when I came out of it, I realized, okay, if I lived my nightmare, then I can do anything. So that was a huge change in terms of the filming of the show. And then after the show, I know as I mentioned before, you know, you get so much criticism, I think anybody who has some type of accomplishment, especially in reality TV, you're always going to have people critical of whether or not you deserved it. So I faced my share of criticism and online bullying. But then I realized, okay, if I can do this show, and win the game and do everything right, and I still have people who are pissed off and think that I don't deserve it, then I'm never going to make everybody happy. So I may as well just do the things I want anyways, because even if I do something imperfect, I'll probably have somebody saying that I could do it better. And I think that those two lessons have really set me free from having these high expectations of myself, because I think before I went into the show, I was like perfectionist PR person. High expectations, have the five year plan, and then now I'm like, I can do the things that I enjoy. I can be passionate, I can start new projects. And I can trust that I have what it takes. And it really doesn't matter what anyone else has to say.

Wendy Mesley  20:12  
Is it that easy, though? I wonder because I- just the whole thing about trolls, like a friend of mine who's, like, old, is- is thinking of, well, maybe I should- maybe I should raise my profile, maybe I should do- but I'm afraid of- and this is like a confident person, a person who has accomplished so much. Do you not read the comments? Do you not- Do you just ignore the trolls? Or do you go, who cares what they think? I'm going to do what I'm doing. 

Erika Casupanan  20:35  
I have a personal policy, I can just never go on Survivor Reddit ever again. And I'm sorry, I know that there are people on Survivor Reddit who are really supportive of me. So thank you so much. But I'm like, oh, that is just- if you want to walk into this, like lion's den of people with varying opinions of you, some really good and some who think you're like the worst person ever, that's where you go. So I just don't go there anymore. But I try my best not to really think about them, or not to seek them out. I don't look myself up on Twitter or anything. But the reality is, you still get people who just reach out to you and go on to your channels and say something. So now, even though it still kind of stings a bit. Now I kind of laugh when I see something. I think for one, it's obviously just a projection of however they're feeling about themselves. And I'm the target. And then also I'm like, I was on that show three years ago. So if I'm still bothering you so much today, I've still got it, you know? I really made an impact. So I'm gonna pat myself on the back for that one.

Maureen Holloway  21:29  
You know what, Erika? I mean, Wendy and I, we've thought- you know, we've had long careers behind us and- and have had our fair share, probably be moreso than you, Wendy, of people saying horrible things. No, maybe we both have equally, and I can never really understand, why on earth do you hate me so much? And then I'm having the same reaction, thinking, who on earth would would give you a time about anything? I mean, seriously.

Wendy Mesley  21:56  
Yeah, why do they take the time? Like, really? There's some things that are serious, but so much of it is not serious at all. It's

Maureen Holloway  22:02  
It's also- I just feel- you're right, you have to ultimately feel sorry for those people. 

Erika Casupanan  22:08  
How do you both manage it? Since you've had long careers in this. 

Maureen Holloway  22:12  
Ignore it. 

Erika Casupanan  22:13  
Give some advice please. 

Maureen Holloway  22:14  
Don't engage. Don't engage, never engage. I mean, on Reddit, you don't have to, but yeah, don't- don't- never respond. 

Wendy Mesley  22:21  
I just wrote a thing for- for the Globe and Mail. And it was a little bit controversial. I was basically saying that I don't listen to people like me anymore. We need a fix. And I don't mean the podcast, I mean, you know, broadcast news, And so there were a lot of people- and a lot of them were just like, yeah, well, you're an asshole, and you make a big pension, and so fuck off.

Maureen Holloway  22:41  
Oh, the money thing is key, too. And that that applies to you as well, Erika. 

Wendy Mesley  22:46  
But I had to hold back saying, I don't make a six figure pension, I'm makin' eight figures. But I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. And yet, a lot of people- like I've worked at CBC for 1000 years. And they said do not engage, never engage. So I didn't engage. And then people said all kinds of things. And so sometimes- sometimes I think you do need to fight back. So it's- it's just- it's really- it's really hard to know. So what's your advice, Mo? 

Maureen Holloway  23:14  
I'll just give you a little anecdote. I said something once and somebody misconstrued it. Well, that- no, that happened a lot. And I got this scathing letter from this woman, accusing me of of anti semitism, and- just ludicrous. And- and I said, okay, I never said that. I will send you the- which you ne- you never do. But I said I'll send you the clip that you're talking about, and you'll see I never said anything like that. And I did. She wrote back and said, well, I'm never gonna listen to you anyway. It doesn't make any difference.

Wendy Mesley  23:44  
So now you do a podcast. And it's sort of- it's about all of this, right? It's about like- like, be brave, like, stand for something.

Erika Casupanan  23:51  
Yeah, I talked to people who- in some ways they've experienced being overlooked and underestimated. And part of the reason why I love it so much is it's, one, inspirational, and it's also so validating to different listeners, like there are certain topics that I think, this is a really niche thing to talk about. Like I interviewed Parween Mandir, who was a financial analyst who specializes in how the first generation immigrant experience creates these obstacles for personal finance. And I'm like, hmm, I wonder if people are going to be interested in this because I'm just like a girl from a reality show. But then I ended up getting some really nice comments from people saying that they cried listening to it, because they had never seen someone talk about their personal finance experience before. So it's- it's so validating to be able to validate other people through the show.

Maureen Holloway  24:37  
So tell us about your podcast and any other projects, like what do you do? And how old are you now, 32? 

Erika Casupanan  24:44  
I'm 34. 

Wendy Mesley  24:45  
She's 34! She's very old.

Maureen Holloway  24:47  
You've accomplished so much. You are- I mean, in this day and age, if you live in Toronto, you're relatively independently self sufficient. Even with a million dollars. But- so- so what's your next challenge? You're a person who likes one.

Erika Casupanan  25:02  
I do, I do. So I- I love working on different creative projects where I can tell stories. So yes, one of them is my podcast, Happy To See Me. And then I also work as a keynote speaker. So I do some motivational keynote speeches for any events. And then I have had the fortunate opportunity to do more TV since Survivor, so I've been on Entertainment Tonight Canada as a correspondent, I was on The Traitors Canada, and unfortunately, was the very first person eliminated, because I guess they thought the Survivor when I was a big threat, and then I have some other longer term creative projects in the works. So hopefully you will hear me talk about those in due time as well.

Maureen Holloway  25:41  
Here's a question.

Wendy Mesley  25:42  
I actually know somebody who was a boss, who thought that he knew everything. And then he was interviewed on national radio. And he said, yes, I'm happy to see me. And I'm like, yes. He said something really stupid. So I felt- I felt very good. But it's funny. I mean, I'm just thinking back to- you worked at Media Profile. So- so I knew people like 1000 years ago, who started Media Profile. They used to have- they still have Christmas parties, and I went to a Christmas party. And someone wrote in a national newspaper that I dance like Elaine on Seinfeld. And I have no- I love to dance, but I have no idea what I'm doing. And so I got like, tossed around the dance floor. And everyone was like, oh, well, there's Wendy dancing. I never danced again. I was so stupid, it's like- I know, but it's so stupid. So all of these trolls I mean, like happy to see me. Just be- be happy to see me. 

Erika Casupanan  26:33  
Mhm, exactly. Oh, and I'm so sorry. But also, I've been to many of those parties too. And it just- yeah, after a certain amount of time, and a certain number of drinks, and then a certain level of dancing. I think everyone kind of looks like Elaine. So I'm sorry they picked you out. 

Maureen Holloway  26:47  
Yeah! And you should never, ever make fun of how anybody dances, because they won't dance again. 

Wendy Mesley  26:51  
It was pretty bad.

Maureen Holloway  26:52  
Well it doesn't matter. 

Wendy Mesley  26:53  
Well, that's exactly what happened. But that's not what should have happened.

Maureen Holloway  26:56  
Very few people are- are you know, natural dances- dancers. Erika, a question for you that you've had before, would you do it again? Because Survivor has a tradition of bringing back winners.

Erika Casupanan  27:07  
I feel like I will disappoint, but I don't want to say never. I just don't see myself saying yes to it anytime soon. And it's just because I got everything that I wanted out of the first time around. So I think- I just couldn't imagine sitting there and being in those conditions and thinking, okay, why am I here? Like, I have already gotten all of my goals from the show. I already won. Like I just don't see myself putting myself through that, because there's nothing else I want from it. So who knows? Maybe if another interesting show comes up, maybe I'll say yes. Like I did say yes to The Traitors. So maybe you'll see me in another way.

Wendy Mesley  27:42  
Well you accomplished so much.

Maureen Holloway  27:44  
Do you keep in touch with any of the people you met on Survivor?

Erika Casupanan  27:47  
I do. I have a few good friends from the show. So I'm still friends with Heather, who was famously my ally on the show, still close with Evy, still close with Deshawn. And I still see Liana. So yes, you do definitely have some close friendships. But also, we are designed to not like each other as a group. So yeah, I think I have a good number of friends, considering I was in a group where we were designed to be enemies.

Wendy Mesley  28:09  
So you were the first person of color. You were the first Filipino, the first Canadian, the first- the first everything. So are things better? Like are they- are they different? Like you learned at Media Profile how to- about power dynamics, and then you went on and you outwitted people, and you- I hope? I mean, you learned some lessons, but I hope they learned some lessons too. You're doing your podcast now. Are things getting better?

Erika Casupanan  28:33  
Like for me, or for the show?

Wendy Mesley  28:34  
No, for- for everybody.

Maureen Holloway  28:35  
For the show. Things are better for you. But I remember the first season, somebody saying, I hope they have a lot of sunscreen. It was a bunch of pasty people. So I think your season there was a concerted effort to make sure that people of color were more than well represented. Well, I shouldn't say more, you could never be more than well represented. So I guess to Wendy's point, do you think that the show has evolved?

Erika Casupanan  28:58  
So I think that there are certain steps that are going forward. And I think that there are still certain areas where there can be improvement. So- so my season was the first season with the diversity mandate, which said that 50% of CBS unscripted casts need to be BIPOC, which was great. And what we've seen in terms of the winners since there have been myself, a black woman, a queer Puerto Rican man, a Latina woman, and a white man who is an older man, so he's older than the usual Survivor winner. So we've seen diversity in the winners. At the same time, before I was on the show, the likelihood of an Asian woman making it past the merge, which is this milestone in the game, was very low. I think it was like less than 50%. But the Survivor statisticians can- can correct me. And since I've been on the show, I think that there has been an Asian woman who was the second person voted off almost every season since mine. So I think that people now think that if there's an Asian woman, all of a sudden they're going to be like Erika. So, in seeing that, that is really unfortunate, and that really breaks my heart. So it's one of those things where I think there is stuff that's getting better and there is progress, but there's always so much more progress to go. 

Wendy Mesley  30:12  
Well, you've made such a difference, Erica, so it's- I'm really glad that you won. And I'm really glad you're doing your podcast. And-

Maureen Holloway  30:19  
Congratulations on everything. You're a remarkable woman, a remarkable person. And we wish you luck with all your endeavors. Though I don't think you're gonna need it. I think you got everything you need.

Erika Casupanan  30:28  
I'll take all the luck I can get. Thank you so much to both to having me today.

Wendy Mesley  30:33  
Happy to see me. 

Erika Casupanan  30:35  
I'm happy to see me! And you. 

Wendy Mesley  30:37  
Bye.

Maureen Holloway  30:41  
I really think that we should do Amazing Race.

Wendy Mesley  30:45  
Oh, dear. Yeah. But she says not only are there no cocktails, which I could maybe live without, but my special pillow? I don't know, Maureen. 

Maureen Holloway  30:53  
You know, the real thing is with Amazing Race, and certainly Survivor, is- it's age, too. I mean, the oldest person I think on Erika's season was 50. They rarely take people- it's just so physically demanding. And it's not just being agile, you starve. Not on Amazing Race. Now we're talking Survivor, but you- your caloric intake just plummets. So you're exhausted all the time. And it's not just your pillow. It's just all the things you kind of need to get through the day.

Wendy Mesley  31:18  
Well, and you have to run around in your- in your underwear. So, I looked better when I was Erika's age running around in my underwear. 

Maureen Holloway  31:26  
There's that too. There's that too. Well, that's- also you're cast. It may not seem fair, but you're cast, certainly in Survivor, they tend to be beautiful people. That's just the way it is. 

Wendy Mesley  31:38  
Yeah. And I think it's really important for Erika and for- for a lot of people to, like, stretch the boundaries. Like why does she have to be underestimated to- to win? 

Maureen Holloway  31:48  
Because she's small? And because she's an Asian woman? 

Wendy Mesley  31:51  
So yeah, so she just took advantage of all of that, which is- which is great, but it's kind of sad that she had to take advantage of that. So-

Maureen Holloway  31:56  
And yet, having spent a half hour with her, I wouldn't underestimate her at all. 

Wendy Mesley  32:01  
No, never.

Maureen Holloway  32:01  
I feel like I'd be happy if she was the CEO of my company. She's- she's got it all going on, so. 

Wendy Mesley  32:08  
Okay, well let's- let's reapply. But I do want to ask them about the special pillow.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  32:14  
Women of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Soundoff Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.