Emily O'Brien: Comeback Kid

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women Of Ill Repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway.

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
Wendy?

Wendy Mesley  0:08  
Yes.

Maureen Holloway  0:09  
Have you ever been to jail?

Wendy Mesley  0:11  
Ah, I got threatened with it a few times when I was a kid but but no I I never got caught so I never I never doing anything really bad so I can't say that I have.

Maureen Holloway  0:21  
Well this this just opens a whole can of worms let's just go with no. 

Wendy Mesley  0:26  
Okay no. I have never been to prison. What about you, Maureen? 

Maureen Holloway  0:30  
No, I have not I you know, at the risk of sounding flippant, I've been to Alcatraz but as a tourist, you know, the beautiful island. Well, it's not beautiful, but it's in the bay across the San Francisco, I can't imagine anything worse than being imprisoned there. 

Wendy Mesley  0:44  
Yeah Alcatraz. Not not the same. 

Maureen Holloway  0:46  
Not the same, but it's fantastic tour, mindblowing. No, everything I know about prison. I learned from movies, shows Orange Is The New Black. That's my experience. 

Wendy Mesley  0:55  
Okay, so movies and TV. I guess what we're saying is not too many fancy white ladies go to jail?

Maureen Holloway  1:00  
Well, you know, it's funny. I was thinking about that actually. If you have like, most famously, probably Martha Stewart. 

Wendy Mesley  1:06  
Oh, yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  1:07  
You know, remember that prison poncho she made and and and Paris Hilton went to jail as well. 

Wendy Mesley  1:13  
Yeah. Felicity Huffman. 

Maureen Holloway  1:15  
 Yeah, Felicity Huffman, she went to jail for fixing her daughter's college entrance exams. How bougie is that?

Wendy Mesley  1:22  
Yeah, that's very fancy white lady. Not the we are but anyway she Felicity, Martha, Paris the rest of them they I think they all did their time right but but I got to think it's not fun going to jail can really suck while you're there and it's not so great when you get out.

Maureen Holloway  1:41  
Well, that's it. That's what brings us to today's guest, Emily O'Brien. Emily went to prison. She went to federal prison after being caught importing cocaine into Canada on her first go no less and we'll talk about that. I hope. While she was there, she came up with the idea of starting a popcorn company. 

Wendy Mesley  1:59  
Yeah, so they made popcorn in prison apparently and Comeback Snacks is the result. I want you to got out, Emily started his business. She learned all about manufacturing also about making a commitment to helping other people, former inmates, people who have been to jail to find work and to encourage businesses to hire them like she has.

Maureen Holloway  2:25  
So grab some popcorn I would recommend the lemon pepper dill from personal experience and meet Emily O'Brien. Hi, Emily.

Emily O'Brien  2:32  
Hi.

Wendy Mesley  2:33  
Hi there. 

Maureen Holloway  2:34  
How you doing?

Emily O'Brien  2:35  
Amazing. How are you?

Maureen Holloway  2:36  
Good. You're busy. Busy busy, aren't you? Are you were just telling us you're running around town you've met you're making appearances but you're also dropping off goods? 

Emily O'Brien  2:44  
Yes. Dropping off, picking up, getting ready for the Grey Cup festival tonight so.

Maureen Holloway  2:50  
Wow. Okay, well, we're gonna ask you to and I'm sure you've told your story, but we're going to ask you to begin at the beginning and let's start with how did you end up in jail?

Wendy Mesley  3:00  
You were a drug smuggler? I we find that like, that's way more than the shoplifting when I was 10.

Emily O'Brien  3:06  
Slight correction here ladies, failed drug smuggler. 

Maureen Holloway  3:10  
Yes. Well, clearly.

Wendy Mesley  3:14  
That's why you were in prison I suppose.

Emily O'Brien  3:16  
There's one thing about me I have a great sense of humor, so if I'm, if I crack jokes, it's usually about myself.

Maureen Holloway  3:22  
Fantastic. Okay, so so so how did you end up being a, an unsuccessful drug smuggler? 

Emily O'Brien  3:30  
Well, I didn't go to university for it for one. I grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, a great family loving family. I went to university University of Guelph I studied international development. I always had jobs. My first job, I think, was delivering newspapers with a wagon so that I could buy chocolate bars. I was always very motivated to to work and I always volunteered and my parents brought me up to be like, a really good person. And I always was, in 2012, 2013, I went through a really challenging time because my family was separating. And doesn't matter how old you are, right? It's whenever you see two people in pain and their family, and it just sucks. And there are some people like that were like, oh, aren't you old enough to, you know, not be sad about this anymore, and just kind of making me feel bad that I was sad. So that's why I turned to substances and at the same time, I actually had a social media company in Toronto. And I met someone through my work who was like, oh, no, like, I want to help you get on a better, not a better path because I wasn't on a bad path. I was just on a, I would call it like a sad path because I was going somewhere that I should be going but I wasn't happy, right? And he was allegedly sober and we became very close. You'll read some articles that say he was my boyfriend. He was not my boyfriend. He was someone that I became close with and try and she's like, you know, like, let's go on this trip and this is after I'd known for eight months, and he offered to bring me to what he said was Puerto Rico. We go to the airport, it wasn't Puerto Rico. It was St. Lucia and I'd never heard of this place in my life. But again, I was at the airport, and I blamed myself because I was drinking at the time and I was like, okay, yeah, it was probably my fault. And we go to St. Lucia, three days into this trip, have fun. On the third day, he tells me it's not just about fun and games anymore. He told me that we're there to work and I was brought to a house that had a family in it, or people that acted like a family, there was no guns, you know, no rabid dogs barking in your face, like wasn't wasn't in some mansion. It was just house and they were like, thank you for doing this. And I don't want to see your partner here, but like, so and so here who has been in debt and thank you for doing this because I was there to help him settle this debt and when he booked the trip, he had taken my passport and sent it to these people. 

Wendy Mesley  6:00  
Yeah, we've all done really stupid, stupid, stupid things quite often with people of the opposite sex, I will confess, but it was really stupid like the guy told you that he was into smuggling drugs and I think you've given them money and I don't know, I guess, you know, addiction speaks to a lot of it.

Emily O'Brien  6:20  
I never gave him money.

Wendy Mesley  6:22  
I thought you gave him $10,000 for a car that you didn't get. 

Emily O'Brien  6:25  
Oh, for a car. Yes. Yes. A car that I never got. 

Wendy Mesley  6:29  
And then you never got the money. 

Emily O'Brien  6:31  
Yeah. Yes, but when you when you see like the kind of good thing about them, which was like I knew I wanted to stop these substances. That was I was like, okay, you tried to like just ignore things right. But you're right. You're right. I overlooked a lot of things.

Maureen Holloway  6:47  
No judgment, though. So but let's let's fast forward to so you agree to transport so what was it like a, like a, it was a kilo or something of coke. 

Emily O'Brien  6:59  
So I didn't agree to anything, but I had to agree when I was down there. Yeah, like I didn't people always told me oh, you could have done this, you could have done this, but when you're in a foreign country, and then you're told something that you have to do it's just scary like you don't you don't want to mess with that world.

Maureen Holloway  7:16  
So what was it? What did it end up being? 

Emily O'Brien  7:18  
Two kilograms of cocaine, strapped to my body and like a bite short form. 

Maureen Holloway  7:23  
Geez so how big is that? Like, I'm trying to find about this. 

Emily O'Brien  7:28  
It's like an iPad. 

Maureen Holloway  7:30  
Whoa. So it's always press flat and you're and that's it? That was the extent is the shove it down your bike shorts?

Emily O'Brien  7:37  
Well, I had to get these custom made bike shorts made by the people that were down there, I had to go to this like tailoring room in this drug house, and this woman took my measurements and took what I meant, and then was like, Alright, you're gonna meet up, we're gonna be back on Friday with these drugs to put in these custom made outfits and then on the Friday, we had to go back to that house, put them in and get on the airplane. 

Maureen Holloway  8:01  
So this was supposed to be like, pat down proof you know, should anybody give you a pat down at security, which happens to all of us, right? But that was the idea that it's sewn in and that you would I mean, jeez, I keep thinking of what was that movie without Midnight Express. And he was just start sweating at the airport. I mean- 

Emily O'Brien  8:20  
That yeah, that was me. 

Maureen Holloway  8:22  
Yeah, that was you. Oh.

Wendy Mesley  8:23  
So what happens? So they they realized that you had something hidden under the spandex or under? 

Emily O'Brien  8:30  
Yes. 

Wendy Mesley  8:31  
And then what?

Emily O'Brien  8:32  
And then we got well, I didn't know that. That's what they realized until later until after I was arrested. We get off the airplane and then we go through the first security checkpoint when they asked you how long have you been gone for blah, blah. And then they gave you a little paper with a number on it. It's just squiggly at that time, it was a, it was written in marker still. It's like a number with a circle around it. It's not a check, mark in not an X, it's just a number and so at this point, he thinks, oh, yeah, we're through and then right before the exit you can see people with their signs up, you know, we already got our bags. 

Maureen Holloway  9:06  
You were almost out. 

Emily O'Brien  9:07  
Yeah. And I was like, Thank God, like, get me the hell out of here and then they're like, you gotta go, right and there's never a place I noticed before because I've never been in a situation like I was like, I didn't know, secondary and airport, because I've never been, I've never even thought about I didn't have to worry about it and there was. 

Wendy Mesley  9:23  
So you spend a couple of years I think in house arrest, and then there's the trial, and then you went to prison, and you write that prison, I mean, Maureen's like seen all kinds of things on television. 

Maureen Holloway  9:34  
I'm an expert. 

Wendy Mesley  9:35  
Yeah I'm an expert, too. I neither of us have ever, ever been inside a prison, but it was interesting, because we have you know, I maybe you did wear orange, I don't know, but you wrote that or you told somebody that would it was like a sorority? Like really? Isn't it supposed to be like terrible.

Emily O'Brien  9:53  
Where did I write it was a sorority? It was a it was a community for sure it was I lived in a house with because I was in medium security. 

Maureen Holloway  10:03  
You were in Kingston, right? 

Emily O'Brien  10:05  
No, I was in Grand Valley Prison for Women,

Maureen Holloway  10:08  
Which is near Kingston? 

Emily O'Brien  10:10  
In Kitchener. 

Maureen Holloway  10:11  
Kitchener, I'm sorry.

Emily O'Brien  10:12  
It starts with a K. It became a family of people that got along, but there was still a lot of drama, there's still violence or still fights. There's a lot of prison elements to it. But I think I just didn't really focus on those, I tried to focus on what was around me that I could grow with and I tried to make it non prison as possible and that was kind of like, I guess, a coping mechanism. 

Maureen Holloway  10:35  
The comparisons, I can't help but make the comparison to Piper Kerman, who was you know, nice middle class pretty blonde girl like you, woman and and got coerced into transporting cocaine through her girlfriend, and ended up in jail. So similar suit, and then she wrote about it, and then that was made into Orange Is The New Black, so based on her own experiences, so there is some truth to that. Obviously, it's dramatized for our entertainment pleasure. It's scary as hell. I mean, you say it sounds like you made the best of it, but you had absolutely no experience with this kind of thing. 

Emily O'Brien  11:13  
No. 

Maureen Holloway  11:14  
It had to be, either you're putting a very good face on it or, or our experience of prison is maybe more dramatic than it is.

Emily O'Brien  11:23  
It's very, it's very prison- like, for sure, but I don't know, I don't want to make it seem like it wasn't prison because it was, but since day one, I told my parents I was just going to camp because I think I just wanted to protect them. I didn't want them to be afraid. And I knew that people didn't get along in real life. People got in fights in real life, people would talk to each other, maybe not physically, but online in real life. So the same kinds of violence and abuse that people do to each other. Not just happens inside person, but outside as well and so I knew that going there would just be a different it was like going to another country, because it's different rules, languages, and economy. 

Maureen Holloway  12:07  
A really awful country with with really uncomfortable accommodations and terrible food, which is which I guess brings us to, to a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel for you.

Wendy Mesley  12:18  
Yeah, I find it really interesting reading about you in the beginning that, you know, you've always been really smart. You've always had a problem with which I have with with some rules and you've always wanted to sort of accomplish things and you did like even in prison, like you tasted this popcorn, the comeback popcorn, which is now the comeback popcorn, but you tasted the popcorn with other prisoners in the kitchen, like, tell us about how did that all happen?

Emily O'Brien  12:48  
So every day like, well, we had to cook our own meals and so people would cook different dishes, some of them will be their favorite meal from home. Sometimes it would be a birthday cake for someone's birthday. Like that's, that's how we create a community despite all the stress that was going on all all of the anxieties that we faced, that was how we kind of came together. Not all of us. But some of us came together and popcorn was a popular prison snack. It was also one of my favorite snacks because part of my, I guess substance use disorder was started with an eating disorder. I would go from not wanting to eat to substances and so okay, I knew that I was going back into the stressful environment. And I didn't want that eating disorder to like reemerge. So that's like, okay, I need to find something that will help me cope so I don't relapse in that way. Like there's sure there's there's drugs and everything in prison, but like that was my eating disorder was the main problem that kind of led to all these other things. So in prison, I was like, hey, popcorn, healthy people, like tell me their favorite recipes, and we pop it and tell our favorite store, not our favorite stories, but tell stories of how we want to do better how we wanted to not be so misunderstood, and our struggles and how we felt that all of our skills and talents were just ignored. Based off that one thing that we did wrong.

Wendy Mesley  14:11  
Is that when you decided to start the business, did you decide on the inside, inside?

Maureen Holloway  14:16  
Listen to her. 

Emily O'Brien  14:17  
Yeah.

Wendy Mesley  14:18  
I'm an expert.

Emily O'Brien  14:21  
Yeah, I did. It did. Because I was like, What can I do with this thing? I feel like I'll write a book. I'm like, why? Like, I haven't done anything. I just committed a crime and I'm going to prison. I'm not writing a book. I wasn't important. Like I didn't do anything significant enough to write a book. And that's how I felt at least right. Not like I felt like no one want to hear a story about this girl that got busted trafficking drugs and wrote a book about it. Like I I knew that I'd had to do something more than I wanted to do more. So in prison, combining like my entrepreneurial spirit with the whole popcorn thing wanting to fight for the comeback potential of people in prison, but it needed a pathway to go that's Comeback Snack was formed.  

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  15:02  
The WOmen Of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  15:05  
So you get out how long were you in? How long were you in, the inside?

Wendy Mesley  15:11  
The inside.

Emily O'Brien  15:11  
So I had a four year sentence, but I did a year in and you know, I got out after a year, and this wasn't because of any special treatment, it was how the Canadian prison system works. If you are, don't cause any incidents, whatever, you don't test positive or any drugs, there's no incidents, then you are eligible for April and you still have to apply and so I was like, okay, nothing's gonna mess with this path that I'm doing. And so I got a parole after a year and then I lived in the halfway house for six months and then I finished the rest of my sentence in the community. So that was about two and a half years.

Maureen Holloway  15:45  
So you're out, but you're facing the same situation that everybody else who's gone to prison or has a record, is that you you, how do you get employed? And I'm sure there are social workers who are there, presumably to help you. But you must have realized, in fact, I know you realize this is a real blemish on your record. And it's very hard to get people to see beyond that. So you decided to make popcorn for a living and did you have any experience in manufacturing?

Emily O'Brien  16:13  
No. I actually, so the funny thing is I went to Guelph University and when I wanted to go there, the two programs that I wanted to go to were like were business, and nutrition. And when I applied from high school, like biology, or whatever grades you need to get into the nutrition biosciences. They weren't good enough. I didn't get into that program. I also didn't get into the business program, because math wasn't good and so I was like international government. That sounds awesome and so now I'm like doing all three. So just shows that you can learn as you go.

Wendy Mesley  16:46  
Yeah, because now you've got yeah, I don't know how many locations you're in, but you're selling it everywhere. It's like you're running a business. You're, you're hired former inmates, I think, and it's this whole idea of, I'm running a business, and I'm hiring people who have a prison sentence, right? Or who had spent time in prison, which is kind of cool. Like, how-

Maureen Holloway  17:08  
It's really cool it's really amazing. So how did you get the did you, did you hire anybody that you that you met on the inside?

Wendy Mesley  17:18  
The big house. 

Emily O'Brien  17:18  
Yeah, yeah, we worked. Yeah, we work alongside with people that I've known from inside. And in the past, we've also worked with people that I didn't know on the inside. And then I also realized that you know, starting a business, you can barely hire yourself for the first. I mean, barely now we're barely take a salary like, we're very humble. So I was like, How can I scale this mission? Because I don't want to say, oh, we're only a company that hires the formerly incarcerated, I want to be a company that also teaches other companies why it's important and creates change at a bigger level and so that's why I started working with government, like federal, provincial governments other like bigger corporate firms doing talks to help scale the mission and scale, the belief in the formerly incarcerated, again.

Maureen Holloway  18:04  
Knowing nothing about this, are there programs in place? I mean, obviously not enough for you wouldn't be an advocate for this, but if you get out of jail, other than, like, all I know, is that there's some social worker who tells you, you know, go to apply for these jobs. But are there initiatives for companies to hire people of with a record? 

Emily O'Brien  18:22  
Oh, there are there are now actually, I mean, but to be honest, when I was in prison, I did a lot of research, I would ask the librarian to print me out articles of companies that had done similar things and the United States led the charge on this movement and I knew that one of the things I say, it's like, I couldn't have gone to prison at a better time, because this movement had already started in the US. And then I read stories online, I read books of people that had built things. And then when I got out, obviously, it was kind of mostly about, alright, I want to hire people directly and then I realized that, hey, we don't have the capacity to hire everyone. And then I didn't want to feel like a fraud for not being able to hire, say, 100 people right off the bat, right. And then so I started working with the Government of Ontario, so former Minister of Labour Monte McNaughton, he created the second chances initiative, which is provincial government, which is conservative to give to employers to train them and educate them on how to bring in the formerly incarcerated because it's not just people that have gone to prison have experienced significant trauma. And it's not easy just coming back into the world and everyone works differently. You can just put anyone into a 40 hour workweek when there's still so many things that, you know, challenge them and so many things that they need to accomplish or so many other things that they need in their life to rehabilitate right so. 

Wendy Mesley  19:44  
So do you get help on on that sort of thing like when you're when you're working with these, these people who are former inmates, and they have issues because of trauma or because of a stigma or how their family sees them or whatever, like, how do you but how do you help or is giving them a job enough of enough of a help?

Emily O'Brien  20:05  
So now I have relationships with a lot of organizations in Ontario, and even in the United States that do the same thing. And that's one of the things that we've worked on in the past couple years, was forging these relationships, like, even doing workshops, like I've done workshops for agencies in Canada, like Vancouver like Vancouver, Seattle, New York, and kind of teaching people like what I learned, and how I built myself, but also, what they're missing from the talent, the untapped talent that they're ignoring. When people apply for jobs, and they have a record.

Wendy Mesley  20:38  
You're giving them a second chance? I am sure they tell you that. 

Emily O'Brien  20:42  
Or a first. 

Wendy Mesley  20:42  
Or a first really. 

Maureen Holloway  20:44  
Or a first one yeah, that's a good point. The way I heard about you was that somebody brought me some comeback popcorn as a hostess gift this summer. And it was really the back of the bag as I was eating that and went whoa. It was 11 Pepper, dill, and I was like, oh, this was fantastic. So tell us about the popcorn. Because any most people can say, well, can anybody can make popcorn, but tell us about your popcorn.

Emily O'Brien  21:09  
That's true. Anybody can make popcorn and that's why I kind of chose it. Because it was a relatable food, but like I knew that I could combine it with a bold mission right? I wasn't about to invent some new food to be like here, try this like random new food with this mission that is might be challenging. For some people, I took something that everyone is familiar with, which is popcorn, and was able to make that relatable to the world and the recipes, some of them, lemon, pepper, dill was one of the first prison recipes that that was the recipe that was like, this is different. I haven't had a pop firm that combines these kinds of flavors. I mean, I'd have access to the internet, like how to do market research, but I knew that it was I just had this like feeling and I was like this is something I can I can do and salam Coverdale and our triple cheese flavor also was it's kind of like the more market version of what I call jailhouse cheese and I would put Kraft Dinner powder on my pop corn and I would crush it.

Wendy Mesley  22:12  
What was the kitchen like? So you had lemon and you had dill and you had Kraft cheese, I suppose, but I'm imagining the kitchen. What what's it like?

Emily O'Brien  22:21  
So we had access to a very limited grocery list. At the federal level, the provincial level is very different. So we could we had a budget of $37.00 or $36.00 a month to pick from, you know, apples, bread, some meats, but they had to provide things their own Canada's Food Guide, because there are people that are in there for life. And that's where the Canadian system works at least and so we're gonna go into that right now, no, I lost my train of thought.

Wendy Mesley  22:47  
No, just what's available in the kitchen. Yeah.

Maureen Holloway  22:50  
Which is really funny because when he would have no idea what to do.

Wendy Mesley  22:54  
I like to eat. Yeah, I like to eat. I just have no idea. I just look around the kitchen and go, wow cool. 

Maureen Holloway  22:59  
What's that?

Emily O'Brien  23:01  
So we could order like from this list of items, and then they'd be there was a kitchen team like that worked in the kitchen, where the food came from wasn't in the house, but the kitchen was in the house. So you could order ingredients from the prison food distribution center, and then then it'd be wheeled to your house every week and then you can kind of toil around with different recipes. But then we also had a canteen. So popcorn kernels weren't available on the grocery list, but the spices were and so we would get popcorn kernels from the canteen, which is something you'd have to buy and get different things from the grocery list and some sometimes I put like milk peanut butter and, and jam and put on my popcorn, which is now another flavor. It's kind of like a cult flavor like this. It's not the most popular but like people that love it try. That's kind of what we did. 

Maureen Holloway  23:49  
Love it a lot. Yeah.

Wendy Mesley  23:50  
So you should do a TV show. Have you ever thought of doing a TV show? Like Orange Is The New I don't know. I'm imagining you were wearing orange.

Maureen Holloway  23:56  
Did what did you wear orange? No.

Emily O'Brien  23:58  
We weren't even wearing skirts either. No, we were trot like a sweat suit. 

Maureen Holloway  24:04  
Yeah. 

Emily O'Brien  24:04  
And we had a t shirt and we had like underwear very, it's called standard issue.

Maureen Holloway  24:13  
Very basic. Were you ever afraid in prison?

Emily O'Brien  24:16  
Of course I was afraid I was afraid that, I was afraid of different things on different days. You're afraid that your friends will come visit you because their visits got canceled. You're afraid that the drama in the house might build up into something you're afraid that everything that you're working on is not even viable. But I'd rather be afraid than sad I guess if that makes sense. 

Wendy Mesley  24:40  
So your family now I'm you didn't go there but but but do they accept that accept everything that's happened to you have have you have you been given a second chance by by everybody?

Emily O'Brien  24:52  
Yeah, when we'll talk about unconditional love, but I think unconditional love actually is conditional, right? No one really talks about it like that but like I knew that, that I'd hurt them so bad, but I couldn't hurt them anymore. And this was the thing that was the catalyst to and like that that moment that I used to actually do the work. You know, I had a lot of work I had to do it myself, of course, sure I didn't orchestrates drug smuggling trip to St. Lucia. But I also didn't address like my the issues that I had, I didn't know how to address them and I wasn't about to, like play the victim the whole time, because that's, that's just not who I am. I like I need to take charge take accountability and taking accountability was, was the first and best step that I ever took.

Wendy Mesley  25:40  
Well, and now you're helping other people, which is, which is great. I mean, I would think that your parents together or not together, must be very proud of you.

Emily O'Brien  25:48  
Yeah and I love them and I'm very lucky to have have them and I would do anything for them and that's that's like, the first bad moment, like the first poignant moment was getting brought into the courtroom in shackles after I'd been arrested. And the second looking at them for the first time and then the second poignant moment was being sentenced to four years of federal prison, I surrendered to the port, they all came that we brought my grandparents, my aunts and uncles came and it was my mother's birthday. But we were ready and I was like this, this is who I'm doing it for. And initially, that was who I was doing it for and then I got to prison. I was like, wait, there's so much more to do it for this lived experience is what to do it for. Because this is what it is. It's not going to change. It's not going to go away. And I wasn't about to let something that was always going to be a part of my life be something I would just pretend to forget. Because we don't forget.

I bet they were not surprised. I mean, they may have been surprised by seeing you in shackles or seeing you in prison, but somehow, I doubt that they were surprised that you've turned this into a business.

Yeah, no, they're just like, oh, that's Emily.

Maureen Holloway  27:04  
It's actually very inspiring, Emily, what you've done and what you've done. I know that this sounds trite to say this, but it's almost like this provided you with a turning point in your life that you needed to have. I don't think anybody needs to go to jail to learn that. But you should also be very proud of yourself. Not just your family, but you yourself should I hope you hold yourself in high esteem because you deserve it.

Emily O'Brien  27:33  
Yeah. Like I do, but then you also can't let like this label of always being proud of yourself. convince yourself that you can't struggle again right? You You have to be so vulnerable to-

Maureen Holloway  27:46  
Life is long. 

Emily O'Brien  27:47  
Yeah, like oh my god, I'm the comeback queen is I'm gonna have to sit here forever. Oh, no. What have I done? 

Maureen Holloway  27:55  
Yeah, there's that isn't there? Yeah, there's no all this pressure to to maintain or even exceed that. 

Wendy Mesley  28:03  
Well, we hope to something beyond popcorn somehow. I'm sure there will be at but there's lots to do on the popcorn front and I hope it's diet. It's there's the diet popcorn. That's the real important question.

Maureen Holloway  28:15  
Popcorn is totally non fatty. Don't you know that?

Wendy Mesley  28:19  
It's what you put on it. And it's been lovely to talk to you, Emily and yeah, I really, really hope that the more people pick up your product, and that you get to hire more more people. 

Maureen Holloway  28:31  
It's just you know, the important thing here, just if you're looking come back snacks, it's really good. Popcorn is amazing. It's super fresh. It's super delicious. This is what started this whole thing and and your story's just been inspiring. And just wonderful to hear. So thank you for for spending some time with us. 

Emily O'Brien  28:50  
Yeah, and it keeps going. 

Maureen Holloway  28:52  
Oh, yeah, life has long,

Emily O'Brien  28:54  
Keeps going. And I'm like, I'm so excited to share more about it because there's prisons that we find ourselves in. At times, we didn't expect it might not be a physical person and it might be a financial, it might be an environmental, it might be like a physical, we might have an injury and think we're in this prison that we can't get out. Have we all been in places that we're like, I don't like being here and I'm mad that I'm here. But those are the moments when you can have the most creativity and actually use what you think or like a lot of people think you have to have everything to create you don't you just have to have passion, motivation and the desire to help others.

Maureen Holloway  29:29  
That's a good message. Comeback Snacks are available, everywhere. Everywhere. Wherever you get your your snacks.

Wendy Mesley  29:35  
At Mau's house. 

Emily O'Brien  29:37  
Farmboy for sure. 

Maureen Holloway  29:40  
Well good for good, that's fantastic. That's a that's a good place. Have you got Loblaws on board yet?

Emily O'Brien  29:45  
Oh, no, they're too expensive on the shelf.

Wendy Mesley  29:49  
Well, we'll all just go to Moe's apparently she's got a bag. 

Maureen Holloway  29:53  
There's none left. They promise you off to go get more but you can you can get it on the website. Comebacksnacks.com. 

Emily O'Brien  29:58  
Yeah. 

Maureen Holloway  29:59  
Okay, we'll put all that information up on our website but Emily, thank you so much.

Emily O'Brien  30:05  
Thank you and thank you for making the time today at two o'clock so I appreciate it. 

Wendy Mesley  30:10  
Wonderful to talk to you yeah and see you and I'm gonna go try the popcorn.

Emily O'Brien  30:14  
Yay. Thank you

Wendy Mesley  30:19  
So inside, big house I guess we're we're hardly experts but she is she is she's well I'm sure compared to somebody who's in for life she doesn't know very much but she sure knows a lot more than we do about a different side of life and she's doing something about it which is which is really cool. 

Maureen Holloway  30:38  
It's I thought her her message at the end was really important that we're so many of us are in prison you know of our own making or for our own divorce or even not you know people who are disabled or or mental illness all the there's so many situations you can find yourself in where you may not think there's any hope and who knew I mean popcorn was her her way out but what a what a moving story. What an emotional story. 

Wendy Mesley  31:04  
Yeah, we had we started off having some technical issues which are fascinating. It was just at the end she was saying yeah, thanks for talking me through that because it's not hardly a worry because there was no technology in prison we never even talked about it's it's just a very different snapshot. You don't hear very many stories of people who have been in prison so it was-

Maureen Holloway  31:25  
And the fact that she has helped with that she didn't just find a way out for herself she's found she's found a way to give opportunity to all the pals she made in the inside. Yeah, I hope I never find out but doubt was certainly interesting. So this Emily O'Brien and it's called Comeback Snacks I'm not kidding the popcorn is delicious. And she mentioned that you can get it at Farmboy or online at comebacksnacks.com. By the way you look good and stripes.

Wendy Mesley  31:56  
What are you wearing? 

Not stripes, not today.

Maureen Holloway  32:04  
Who's been to jail, have you thought oh strikes will be good?

Wendy Mesley  32:08  
Yeah, well, orange stripes.

Maureen Holloway  32:10  
Yeah, no, no, I should have ordered orange jumpsuit.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  32:15  
Women Of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley with the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.