Dianne Whelan: 500 Days in the Wild

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of ill repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. 

Wendy Mesley  0:07  
So Maureen I really really, really like the outdoors. I'd say I'm probably well I am I'm an outdoorsy person.

But you are you.

I don't know. I don't know. Are you an outdoorsy person?

Maureen Holloway  0:19  
No, you are an outdoorsy person. I like the outdoors you know that but I think I'm more of an indoor busy person. I remember Liam, your husband Liam saying that Wendy was water and air and that he was earth and fire which is nice. And I thought oh, I'm earth and fire so no...

Wendy Mesley  0:38  
I like fire too. But yeah, I am water and air. When I go to adventure, you like adventure?

Maureen Holloway  0:43  
To a point I don't like being frightened. I don't like being uncomfortable. And before you tell me that you love adventure I we all know about your special pillow. So

Wendy Mesley  0:49  
Yeah, no, I don't go anywhere without my special pillow or it actually gets worse. I have a noise machine see it sounds just like the ocean. So I was just like the sea and Liam who you mentioned earlier is trying to figure out why I take it when we go to the ocean. Yeah, so anyway, neither of us are remotely in the same league as Deanna Whelan. 

Maureen Holloway  1:18  
No, not even close. Diane is a documentary filmmaker who turned her camera on herself to record her 24,000 kilometer journey on the Trans Canada Trail, which in case you don't know is the longest trail of the world. Yeah.

Wendy Mesley  1:33  
And she was the first to do it. So it's kind of amazing. She paddled everything from St. John's, Newfoundland to Victoria BC. She hiked she cycled. She paddled mostly on her own. And her film is called 500 days in the wild. But you know what, it took a lot longer than 500 days, it took her close to six years to make the journey.

Maureen Holloway  1:53  
There were mishaps there were surprises. There were some real danger along the way. It is a spectacular look at some of the most remote parts of the country. She went there. So you don't have to, and the wildlife that lives there. But it's just as much about Diane herself, some of her friends and the mostly remarkably kind people she met along the way.

Wendy Mesley  2:14  
So Diana Whelan is here with us now. So she's, yeah, her movie is coming out. So Hi, Diane, nice to meet you.

Dianne Whelan  2:28  
Too. Amazing woman. It's nice to see you again, too.

Maureen Holloway  2:31  
Right out of the gate. Why call it 500 days in the wilderness when you were there are 500 days in the wild when you were there for so much longer?

Dianne Whelan  2:38  
Well, you know, type A personality leaving not type A personality finishing. You know, I had a schedule when I left, right, I really thought that I was going to do like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember I was on my mountain bike, my 20s I was to an 80k a day and I could do this and mapping out this, whatever. But, you know, by day 10 It was like, this is a fairy tale. The schedule is a fairy tale. So what do you do? I had to have that day of reckoning, right? It's like, what are you doing? Why does it matter? How many kilometers you go a day? Why are you doing this? It's not failure. You can't make this you can't do this this way. So and why are you out here? I'm like, oh, yeah, well, I'm out here because I'm an artist. And I actually want to make a film. You know, this is what I do. This is my profession. So why am I measuring this journey quantitatively? Like, what difference does it make how fast or how far or whatever. So on that day, I burned my schedule was day 10 of the journey. And really, when I think back to it, this was a very pivotal moment. Because in this moment, I am taking off the rabbit suit. And I am putting on the turtle shell. And I'm not asking myself anymore, you know, what's the fastest way? I'm asking myself? What is the most meaningful way? And that changed everything?

Wendy Mesley  3:50  
So I have a really basic question even more basic than why did it? Why was it not 500 days, and it's called 500 days? What is the Trans Canada Trail? Like I look at the 401. And there's like a diary. But that's that's not it. I mean, you there were there were places in your documentary where you couldn't like see anything. So what is it?

Dianne Whelan  4:11  
So the Trans Canada Trail is 487 different land and water trails stitched together to make one long trail, it has some offshoots, that dead end, but my goal was to do one continuous line from St. John's, Newfoundland, to northern Alberta, and then paddle 4000 kilometers up to the Arctic Ocean to Tuktoyaktuk.

Wendy Mesley  4:34  
Of course as one does, yeah

Dianne Whelan  4:36  
And make my way down south, eventually, of course to Vancouver and then from there 300 Kilometer paddle to Victoria. We're, that's the other Mile Zero on the journey. So that's the Trans Canada Trail. It connects three oceans. I will say one thing though, I am the first person to do the land and water trails of the Trans Canada Trail. But there have been two people a man I named Dana and a woman named Mel Vogel who have also walked the trail. And I always like to bring attention to that because the water trails were the most remote section. So they had to reroute themselves on the roads and stuff to get through that. But I still think what they did is absolutely amazing. So one of the things being on Everest taught me is there going to be a lot of firsts? Okay, Everest has first every day, right? I am the youngest person, I am the first person with one leg, I am this I am that. And power to them, what they're showing is through a powerful metaphor of their own experiences that don't let anything stop you from doing what you think you can't do. Right? So I see the beauty in that. But I also saw after a while being on Everest, it's like, who cares about the first really, it's just it's more about the process of how you do what you do on the first because I left before the trail even open, because I'm a filmmaker, and I need that like I need okay, I can probably sell this if I get out there. And I do this. So on a professional perspective, it totally made sense after Everest in the Arctic to do this. On a personal note, of course, I had, you know, the things that were unfolding for me at that time, I guess you could say I was having a classic midlife crisis as 50 and just turned 50. And my marriage of 13 years had ended, and my dog of 16 years or just died. So I was like, Well, I'm sad. But there's also opportunity that comes with this, which is I can go and do this film, because I couldn't have done this film, if I was in a relationship when I left, right? I mean, who's gonna? Who's gonna wait for me for six years?

 Let alone 500 days? Yeah.

Maureen Holloway  6:31  
But you were in a relationship by the time you ended?

Dianne Whelan  6:33  
Yeah, believe it or not, again, who starts a relationship on a trail. But I did. I did in year four. But I did with somebody that I've known for a long time, who started showing up in year four to help me resupply and make the transitions between canoeing and hiking, and winter, because she lived in Vancouver. So once I hit the Manitoba, Saskatchewan area, she could drive out. And he did and help me make those transitions. And so during that process, we transitioned from friends into partners.

Maureen Holloway  7:07  
So logistically, so this explains a lot because I know when you were in Cape Breton when you were, like Bras d'Or Lake you went round the entire shoreline instead of across it. So that was actually part of the trail.

Dianne Whelan  7:18  
Yeah, if you look at the map, I was following a water trail. And the water trail goes all the way around the lake. You know, here's the funny thing. So I'm on the lake, and I'm paddling it, and I'm start meeting people. And I'm like, so ya know, they're like, What on earth are you doing is when you're on a lake, everybody on the shore says that, like gets wind of it. Then they start to say, Hey, what's up with that canoe? Have you seen that was a woman in a canoe? Because it took me 40 days to paddle the ridurre lake. So I was out there for a while. And when word gets around, right, so I'd be like, you know, after I started meeting some people, and I'm like, Oh, well, look, I'm just doing your water trail. And they're like, Yeah, okay, my family's been here for 200 years. Nobody's ever done this. We don't even know what the hell you're talking about what trail you know. And so I was like, oh, so basically, I'm like, this isn't done, like regularly. And they're like, yeah, no, never never saw this before in our life. And

Wendy Mesley  8:12  
You've always been like that. I mean, even your family, there was a quote of someone who says, yeah, she's always been out of the box. You've always been driven. You've always been driven by your dreams, or your passions are. So what on earth were you doing?

Dianne Whelan  8:25  
Right? Well, I mean, I was following a trail. And the trail has a map, and I'm just simply trying to, like, make my way, you know, through this, basically. But I mean, you know, I have to tell you that I love what I do. You know, I love being a filmmaker. And I love adventure films, because they have a story arc, they have a beginning of a middle and they have an end. And you know, the very first book I ever read was The Hobbit. Right? As a storyteller, that's really been my my story arc. Ever since, you know? And let's face it, what is the story? Well, Aristotle, right, define story, a story as a sympathetic hero, or Shiro on a vital quest against insurmountable odds. Well, this kind of clicked off those boxes, you know, I knew that there was a story arc here. What I didn't know is that I was going to be the central subject. I actually thought that by pointing my camera and filming other people, I was going to make something more like the Canterbury Tales, you know. But we get into the edit room, and I worked with this amazing woman on one of my favorite creative collaborations in my life. And she's like D where the house footage of you like, well, there's What do you mean, she's like, well, we need you know, you're like the central character here. We kind of where's the footage of you? Well, I didn't really fill myself that much. I mean, in the beginning, anyway, but what I did do was that storytelling that you hear in the film, these are a lot of sound bites that come from these audio diaries that I did. I never pointed at myself, I pointed the camera, like my POV out onto whatever I was looking at, but I talked behind it. And so We were able to extract a lot of that narrative from that we we had to bridge it with some new content as well. But that's where a lot of that narrative comes from.

Maureen Holloway  10:10  
And it's your internal dialogue, which becomes external is what actually keeps us going. Because otherwise it'll would be, you know, a National Film Board. The Loon in its natural habitat. So just back to the practicalities, the trail as people might be envisioning, it is not a trail. In some places, it disappears entirely because it's not maintained. It's deeply remote. I don't think you went through any urban areas whatsoever.

Dianne Whelan  10:38  
I did. I go through Toronto and Montreal, I guess that counts. But they're quick, you know, I mean, the funny thing was, when I left and I looked at the map, I was like, taking great comfort and knowing that every once in a while I was gonna go through cities or communities, and I thought, well, those places will feel great. And I was more afraid of the really remote sections. But within the first year, I was like, Oh, God, no, it was a total flip around. It was like, oh, no, I'm getting close to a community, it's like, a lot more dangerous for me, you know, like, the comfort was always in being away. And it's funny, like it was just a real shift in consciousness. And part of the reason is, like, when you're off in the great wilderness, you're like that great adventure. But when you're camping downtown in the city, you are a homeless woman. And I gotta tell you, that was a very enlightening experience to see how I was treated when people thought I was a homeless person, because it's not very nice. You know, people hurt, they don't want to look at you and your eye, versus when they think you're the great adventure. Everyone just kind of flocks towards you, right? So there's a lot of really interesting observations through this experience, as well. 

Wendy Mesley  11:42  
Sorry to keep harping on the the what is it that drives you, it's just that you remind me so much of my mom's on my mom went to Basecamp. And when she was 15, which was a few years before you went to Basecamp. And she didn't spend 40 days there, but but the whole hiking the whole passion, the whole, I am who I am, I got to do these things. But she was in love with mountains. So she never hacked her way through. Like some of the pictures that Marina is talking about. It's, it's kind of amazing that you were able to haul your canoe over tree stumps and everything. So it was just like, you didn't train for weeks and months before going out. To do this. You just thought I can do this, I need to do this. Why don't I do this? 

Dianne Whelan  12:26  
It really is driven by story, though, you know, I can't tell you enough. Like as much as like, yeah, those private, you know, my personal life things tick, tick, tick. But you know, I'm, I'm driven as a storyteller, right to make films and to write books. I think that it's ancient to my bones. And if I lived a former life, I was banging a drum in Ireland, somewhere telling stories around a fire there, you know, I mean, it's very natural part of me and excites me, I get inspired by ideas, and then I get inspired to make those ideas happen, you know, thought becomes deed and deed becomes destiny, as they say. And also, you know, we're not what we say we want. And I've said this a few times, but yeah, we're really not what we say we want, like, tells me nothing. If I asked you, you know, what do you want? And it's like, well, you want health and you want abundance, and you want love and you want and that's we all want those things, I think. But if I asked you one day Moureen, what are you willing to suffer for? That tells me a lot about who you are.

Maureen Holloway  13:22  
I'm gonna need a moment. Hmm, it's interesting.

Dianne Whelan  13:28  
If you're an artist, you're willing to suffer for your art, you're not choosing something that makes any sense at all, you're choosing something that has no fiscal security, no retirement, no pension, and who most of the culture looks at as, like, get a real job, you know. So there isn't a lot of value anymore in some parts of our culture towards storytellers. However, there's an immense amount of value in indigenous communities, for people who are artists who follow their hearts. And that's why I had some of the receptions and the experiences that I did, because there's an immense amount of respect for a walkabout for a journey like this.

Wendy Mesley  14:04  
Yeah, I love that you're given an eagle feather by an indigenous man at the beginning. And then you met him and his grandchild at the end, like you learned a lot

Maureen Holloway  14:13  
She was born while she was traveling across the country,

Dianne Whelan  14:17  
Really, and hope what a sweet, sweet, sweet spirit that little girl is.

 It's a thread throughout the journey. I'm assuming that was intentional or always is simply when you are off the beaten path, the people that you are going to encounter are more likely to be indigenous, or is that me? Just being naive?

I think you're right on all accounts. I think all of those things are true. I mean, I'll tell you that I did go to Vern three Williams and Haida Gwaii, three months before I left, and you know, we just met because I was there showing my Evers film as part of a film festival. And then of course, everyone always says what's next? And at that point, I could share it because I was literally about to embark on it like three months later. And then once they heard about it, I thought well Oh, you know, I really want to talk to an indigenous elder and ask them how I can honor the ancestors of this land as I cross it. And that had always been something that I knew I wanted to do. So I asked, burn, you know, how can I do this and he gifted me the feather and asked me to carry it with me on the journey and taught me to smudge. So as a way of grounding myself out on the journey. And at first, you know, I mean, of course, because it came from him to a stranger. And it was something that was really important to him, I treated it with a lot of reverence. And I took this task very seriously. And I was frightened, because I'm like, I'm about to go on this very rugged journey, and on how am I going to look after this very fragile feather. But that feather shaped my journey. Because what we carry in our hearts, shapes our journey. So the fact that I was carrying this with all the reverence and respect with me opened up doors to those other opportunities. I mean, Chief Ben silly boy who's now passed on, but he was the grand chief of the make my people and he heard about my journey while I was on the lake and Obrador for 40 days. And he also knew that I was stopping, I had stopped already in three Mi'kmaq communities before the end of that journey, to listen and to learn. You know, him and his family met me when I arrived. And to me, that was with all that has happened between settlers and indigenous people on this land, just a moment of profound grace, and very moving for me. And, you know, I stayed in the community for a few days. And well, I've learned a lot really, that's my next lesson, really, of the journey after burning the, the, if burning the schedule was Lesson number one. Lesson number two was here, I left thinking, Oh, I'm doing this the old way, no motors, you know, and they're like, Well, Dan, you know, actually, in our culture, that's not really doing it the old way. The old way, is what you carry here inside you. And so as you walk on the earth, say the earth is sacred, the Earth is sacred. And as you're paddling your canoe, you know, you say the water is sacred, the water is sacred. That's the old way, walking with reverence for the earth. And I didn't need my logical mind to analyze those words, it was enough that they landed, I took them in, and I let them guide me on my journey. And I can tell you, more than the high tech gear more than the GPS, traveling that way as why I made it safe.

Wendy Mesley  17:21  
You lived which is kind of remarkable. When we see the documentary, there were so many moments where you could have your community, your kayak would have been flipped over. And you lived somehow I know.

Dianne Whelan  17:31  
Well, you know, it was it was sobering, that last section up in the high Arctic, of course, up until that point, it just like, I have a dream, and I'm making this dream come true. And you know, you just got to believe and it's easy to get pretty positive about all of that. But then it was very sobering when for four months, and Louisa was paddling out section with me. And we hadn't seen one person in a like paddling, you know, not one. And we were about 3000 kilometers into the journey. And just going into the final stretch, which was the Mackenzie River when some locals and Hay River said, oh, there's no no Hay River was community before that Fort Smith said, oh, there's going to be a guy starting just a few days after you. He's gonna start paddling from here, and he's gonna go all the way up to tuck. And he's in a kayak. He's 30 years old, his name is Thomas so you guys will meet. And then a few A week later, we heard also that there was a man and a woman starting ahead of us just doing the McKenzie part. And they were going to also be paddling and we might see them and we're really excited to meet both these groups of people like both Thomas and and Julian and the woman he was traveling with, we thought right on, that'd be fun, you know. And within a week or two of hearing of these two people, Thomas drowns behind us, like five kilometers behind us on a day that we actually stayed on shore because I thought the waters were a bit rough. The lake was really tricky. You had to paddle like a kilometer away from shore because the lake was so high that the shoreline was flooded. And that's dangerous, because being so far out, if something changes, it's very difficult to get back in. And then I suspect that's what happened to Thomas that day. So here you go. Here's a young man who's 30 years old, he's doing exactly what I'm doing. He's given up his home, he has sold his car and he's trying to make a documentary on climate change. And now he's just perished. That really, really hit me. And then it wasn't a week later, when we got word from my producer on the satellite phone, she had left a message and then we received it and it said basically, like, Julian this the man in the canoe just got hauled out of his tent at 330 in the morning and eaten by a grizzly bear. Like please, please be careful. This is my where you are. Right where? And, you know, there's no going back. You're on rivers, they go one way. And so this really Yeah, you know, it took the everything's okay. You know, I mean, I had four years out there where nothing had happened. I hadn't been hurt, I hadn't been sick, and no one had died, you know, and all of a sudden that brought this very real reality with Just sometimes we pursue our dreams and they don't have the outcome that we hoped it would. So, you know, that's not lost on me either. And there is luck. You know, I don't think they did anything wrong. Like, I do think there's a certain amount of luck in how these things unfold. But it definitely brought a different sensibility to that part of the journey for sure.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  20:23  
The women of ill repute.

Maureen Holloway  20:26  
Did you ever, ever once maybe at the beginning, when you this is, this was a long, long journey? Was there ever a point where you thought I might not do this?

Dianne Whelan  20:37  
You know, even when the men died, I didn't think about quitting. To be honest with you. There was only one day in six years where not one day, a couple of weeks, in six years that I thought I would quit. And it was the end of 2019. I just finished paddling in the Arctic and was coming down into northern Alberta, I got a message that my mother's aorta above her heart had ripped open, and that she was being rushed into some serious surgery, and that it was highly likely that she would not survive. So I was we immediately called Louisa and she came and picked me up. And we drove back to Vancouver. And fortunately, when we got there, you know, she survived the surgery. And she was in intensive care for a while and I just capped out at the hospital. And then when she was moved out of that into her own room, I just like made a bed out of a couple chairs and spent a couple of long days just really rethinking everything. And like, you know, this is your mother, like I'm my job's here now, like, you know, this is not a time for me to be away from this woman. This is a time for me to be here advocating for her looking after her. This is my job. But my mother, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree clearly because I mean, three weeks later, that woman walked out of that hospital, which she should not have survived. And she did. And she kicked me out. She's like, you go and you finish that journey. And I will be waiting for you at the finish line in Victoria. And we was she was waiting for me at that finish line in Victoria. So yeah, that was the only time I thought about quitting.

Maureen Holloway  22:13  
There are lots of comparisons to be made. Although this is a unique journey. I've seen Cheryl Strayed who did the Pacific trail, I have watched a show called alone, both my husband and I were just like right into it, where they it's like Survivor, but you basically have to kill your own food and people are dropped in the north, where it's cold, very cold. And Winter's coming. And by and large, most of the people who quit and went home did so not because they were starving or whatever. But because they couldn't be alone. And you know, we're talking about your mother reminded me of that. Some people just went Why am I doing this? My place is at home with my family, even though it's a month, why am I up here? And is that I'm glad that you had people join you for part of the journey because you don't lose face for having people with you. And you had wonderful people with you and your friends.

Wendy Mesley  23:05  
Well, if your mom hadn't given you permission, what would you have done?

Dianne Whelan  23:09  
Well, if my mother had asked me to stay, I would have stayed. Absolutely. I mean, that was that would have been a no brainer for me. Yeah. 

Wendy Mesley  23:15  
I think at some point, you've quote, how the Cree view of poverty is when you're alone. It's not about money. It's about being alone.

Dianne Whelan  23:25  
Yeah, poverty is being all alone. Exactly. And being rich is just to be very well connected to your community and your family and friends, you know, the more the wealthier you are. But also just you know, I went to McGill University in the 80s. I studied philosophy and the history of Western thought really, I was I've always been fascinated by ideas. I'm very inspired by them. And nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. So I naturally really romanticize individualism. I mean, that's really what the history of Western thought takes you to is that place of and you know, there's, I'm glad I'm glad that you can be different in our society and there are rules to protect you even though you don't, let's say follow the main the main flock you know, you can still be you here and that's okay. But on the extreme end, yeah, like I now think something that I very much romanticize, which was individualism is an illness in our culture, I really do. And we are like trees, you know, on the surface it looks like every tree stands alone. But underneath the surface all those trees roots

Wendy Mesley  24:24  
They're are all socialists. There was a book written about that. Yeah. They're all supporting each other.

Dianne Whelan  24:32  
Right? And so we're like the trees you know, we are we are all connected. We're connected to the by the fact that we all live on this living planet and a galaxy full of dead planets. By the way. I don't want to live on Mars, do you? I mean, like there's no butterflies. There's no cedar trees. There's no beautiful oceans. There's nothing I there's no interest in me at all to go there. We have this place and this is what we share. And it is amazing. It's a jewel. It's a living planet and a galaxy of dead planets. Well So have you saved it, thereby saving the planet?

Wendy Mesley  25:03  
Have you saved the planet, which is good any harm?

Maureen Holloway  25:09  
All the time that you were gone or as part in the in the film where you mentioned that you don't need news, the only thing you need is weather. So and this was COVID is pre COVID. For part of it, you were removed from all the things that I think really weigh heavily on the rest of us. I'm in the news. I like to be informed. But it's, it's a depressing thing. And you were free of that the weather was all that mattered? Have you been able to carry any of that insouciance?

Dianne Whelan  25:36  
I still read the New York Times on weekends, especially, I mean, I am a journalist and my training, you know, I realized was in journalism school, I will never be a hard news writer. I picked up a camera and my teachers were like, You should do that. You should be a photo journalist, you're a lot better. I think that dyslexia is coming in between you and the hard news writing. But I am I was always drawn to that. So I do love that some news. Okay, and especially good news. And by the way, both of you have that as part of your background, that's for sure. So you know, your examples of good news, and people. But nevertheless, after being out there for a couple of months, and near the beginning, I realized, well, you haven't you haven't actually looked at the news, because it's totally irrelevant out here. And it actually came out of this conversation I had with my dad one day when I had cell service, my phone, my family to see how they were doing. And I let them know, I was okay. And my dad's like, yeah, I guess he's you know, it doesn't really matter what happens in the news. And I'm like, Yeah, Dad, you know, actually doesn't except for weather. Yeah, there's a hurricane coming. You know, that's important. Like, what's the surface of the water doing? What's the wind doing in the trees, because when you're living outside, 24 hours a day, what's going on, and that reality has a direct impact on you in a ways where our cars and our homes kind of divorce us from a lot. When you're living outside? 24 hours a day, it's all about that. It's like, what animal prints are on the dirt around me right now? Because that lets me know who I'm sharing space with, you know, if the surface of the water starts to do crazy things, you know, there's something common, like there's a change of the weather. So you want to start looking for a place to camp. So yeah, your survival is very much dependent on your connection to the environment that you're like you're in, frankly, yeah,

Wendy Mesley  27:17  
I was really struck by that watching. You react to seeing while the waves are building, there's something's going to happen. I should start. But then you kept going. So I don't know whether you get going because 

Dianne Whelan  27:29  
There's no shoreline. It was all your choice. There's no place to land.

Maureen Holloway  27:33  
You paddled into the night. Yeah. till two in the morning. Wow.

Wendy Mesley  27:37  
So what are you going to do now? We're gonna wrap in a couple minutes. But But yeah, so you've done the you've done base camp, you've done the Arctic, you've done the Trans Canada Trail? 

Dianne Whelan  27:46  
Well, now, you know, there's a film to take out to the world, we have incredible partners in Canada, Paramount plus and elevation is distributing a theatrical right now. So I couldn't ask for better partners in Canada, I have the best. And they have been the best. I'm really honored to work with everyone. But outside of Canada, all the rights are still here with me. So the next job with me and the producer and the executive producer we are we're you know, we have a big job in front of us right now, to get this film out to the rest of the world. I went to Berlin a couple of weeks ago, did some screenings during the Berlin out there. And we're going to try to Oscar qualify, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that out loud. Because it's kind of like a dream. We are the little ant pushing the rubber tree plant. But we're going to try to do a theatrical in LA and New York, which will enable us to at least submit to the Oscars. And that's we're just, you know, whatever happens after that happens, but we're going to we're going to go through the process. So that's what's next right now. And those are massive goals. I would say like, each of those goals is like climbing Mount Everest without oxygen from where I'm sitting right now. But again, I'm not deterred. I mean, there's no failure and trying, so we're going to try. And then after that, I do have another project. It's brewing in my mind. But as I say to people, I don't kiss and tell, you know, it's like, if you got pregnant in the early months of your pregnancy, you don't tell people because you're not sure yet. Like, you want to make sure that everything's gonna work out, okay. And, really, my ideas, and these films are not too different from that, you know, you get these ideas, but they're fragile. And you got to be really careful who you share your dreams with. Because if you know that someone will support it, then that's okay. But at the beginning of someone, you just share it, and they're like, oh, that's dumb, you know, well, like that. You don't need that. I don't need that. So I keep them to myself until I start them. And then I share them with people as I'm making them. I don't hashtag and this and that are everything. For me. Social media is like the part about journalism that I used to like, which is like, you go take the picture. And then at the end of the day, you have the satisfaction of that photo. So you know, I knew I was creating so much content out there that would never make the film but through social, I had the opportunity of just share here's a photo, you know, of being able to share a moment from the day or whatever, and build an audience So, while you're traveling, and so that's when I start the journey, that's when I'll start to share it, you know, but before then I also I write books. When I make documentaries, I wrote a book on my Everest trip 40 days on Everest. And I wrote a book on my Arctic journey called this vanishing land. And I am writing a book on 500 days in the wild.

Wendy Mesley  30:20  
Well yeah, I saw you had a book with you. So I wanted to know, what was the thing that you were trying to save? That wasn't plastic that was around your neck? Was that was that food or a map anyway, you can't remember but 

Dianne Whelan  30:31  
Survival things, right? So usually a lighter, there's like that, that I carried. Because you know, you could lose everything. But as long as I can light a fire, I know how to make a lean to like, you're always thinking survival, always. Like, if I get separated from everything, what do I need to have on me to survive, and mostly it's a flame 500

Maureen Holloway  30:51  
days of the wild, although it was a lot more than that. It's a beautiful documentary on top of everything else. I mean, it's got everything. It's scary. It's wonderful. It's parts of it are funny, but it's also just a beautiful look at this country. And you're very, very impressive. And it's been a real pleasure meeting you and talking to you. 

Dianne Whelan  31:12  
Me too. Like I said, I've had respect for both of you and your career. So thank you very much for this wonderful conversation.

Wendy Mesley  31:18  
Thank you. Yeah, it's been lovely. Your documentary is lovely. And so are you. So thank you. Thank you. See, yeah. Well, I was quite struck by her because it's weird when you do a documentary, and you have to voice it and you have to be, you have to take your subject somewhat serious. The documentary was a little bit too serious for me. And yet, I was very much drawn in. And I'm really drawn in by her.

Maureen Holloway  31:47  
I know well, as she said, part of the problem of turning your camera on yourself is that you are the you know, the You're the star and the supporting cast and, and it's an interior monologue that you're forcing yourself to put out there so that you have somebody in there. I mean, if there were for you and me, it'd be a buddy comedy.

Wendy Mesley  32:04  
Yeah, except the shield. Why did there were there were a bunch of scenes where I was like, Okay, I know how this ends because she made she's making a documentary and she's coming on the podcast, so she's lived. But there were a bunch of moments where I'm like, wow, really?

Maureen Holloway  32:19  
I know so drowning in the bear incident was I mean, it is not for the faint of heart and one thing about Deanne Whelan is she is not a faint of heart. Super cool never gonna do it.

Wendy Mesley  32:30  
I'm in as long as I can take my special pillow.

Maureen Holloway  32:35  
hWe'll have to carry your own special pill and you're in your routine are

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  32:40  
Women of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Sound Off Media Company and producer yet Val graver.