Chef Michael Smith: What's Cooking?

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of ill repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley. And Maureen Holloway.

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
Wendy, I know our guest this week does not like the term celebrity chef, and we're going to talk about why in a moment. But the notion of a famous chef is a fairly recent one. I mean, there was Julia Child, who pretty much introduced French cooking to America and before that, August Soca a lot of other French dudes, a Chef Boyardee who was a real man, but he was more of a canning expert, I think, than a chef. But

Wendy Mesley  0:34  
now there are so many. There's so many. There's Gordon Ramsay a big, big fan. I think Michael Smith is a big fan, Allah Ducasse,

Maureen Holloway  0:42  
Allah Ducasse, Jamie Oliver at will Anthony Bourdain. I think he was more of a writer than he was. I mean, admittedly, he himself said he wasn't the best cook in the world. So you know,

Wendy Mesley  0:54  
his books were way better than his recipes. And he's a he's a hero of mine. Another one. I was waters.

Maureen Holloway  1:00  
Not a lot of women. Yeah, it's not all still. Yeah. Which is ironic, because many people still believe that women's bloat was placed in the kitchen. But we digress. Our guest this week is indeed a well known chef, TV host cookbook, author, nutritional activist in proprietor and a Prince Edward Island, or if not by birth than by adoption. Yeah. So

Wendy Mesley  1:21  
it's Michael Smith, he, he's actually he's from around New York City. He's worked in restaurants like big restaurants all over the world. But he relocated BI to concentrate on sustainable cooking, and healthy living for families and friends along with his wife chastity known as jazz. I think Michael runs the end of a fortune. And I think there's another one right to the end at Fortune fortune Bridge,

Maureen Holloway  1:46  
which is booked up for the next four months I checked. And, yeah, so that's great. Well, I mean, I don't know, but not for a while.

So five years ago, Michael was appointed to the Order of Canada, and his latest cookbook is simply called farmhouse vegetables. And no, with no further ado, let us welcome one of Canada's tallest freestanding chefs, Michael Smith. Hello, Michael.

Chef Michael Smith  2:15  
Wow. Thank you. Hi, Wendy. Hi, Maureen. Thank you so much for having me. What a wonderful introduction. Yes. I'm not pre Sandy at the moment, though. Yeah. And

Wendy Mesley  2:24  
you're sitting down? Yes, I

Chef Michael Smith  2:25  
am. Yes, I am.

Wendy Mesley  2:26  
Yes. Here you are. You are Tolstoy, I have to get a really stupid question out of the way to does your wife does chastity have to wear high heels? Because you're so tall?

Chef Michael Smith  2:35  
Oh, my wife has she loves wearing high heels. She looks great. In high heels. She rocks her heels. I think I am a lifelong excuse for her to wear high heels.

Wendy Mesley  2:44  
Okay, so tell us a little bit more seriously. The whole celebrity chef thing that the Mole was talking about? I mean, you say you don't want to be known as the celebrity chef anymore. But you kind of were one you were like, You're everywhere you turn on the TV, and you'd be like, you'd be just there. And now you're your anti celebrity chef. What happens?

Maureen Holloway  3:05  
Why is that? Well,

Chef Michael Smith  3:07  
my thank you. I mean, let's let's perhaps parse the semantics of it. Shalini What am I what am I anti. I mean, I, of course am blessed. I have a unique perspective on this. I spent more or less 17 years on the inside of the sort of celebrity chef world as a Food Network. I'm so generalizing right now as a Food Network champ. And for me, throughout that time, I met so many other people that were introduced to me as chefs who flat out simply were not. So to me, the word chef is earned. And celebrity chef is pejorative, because the long before I saw a TV camera, you know, I was in the trenches, I was working, you know, that was my life. And I was proud and happy for it. And, again, 17 years in the trenches before I saw a camera, and you know, and so that was my path. And so I understand very much the word chef, and it means to me, it means to me and a lot of people, many of them, you mentioned moments ago, the exact use of that word, that's an urn word. And it's not just something that a consumer can throw around, because the programmer say, oh, Chef, you know, you're not a chef, unless you learn that word. And so, so the corollary of that, of course, is to simply be deemed celebrity chef, where I don't know, I'm not so sure you're not I don't like that. Just a chef isn't enough. You know, I live it, breathe it, love it. And you know, my mom and dad somehow came together and created a guy who, you know, I just live and breathe to create experiences for other people, you know, my family, my friends, my community, the folks that come to the end, like it's just me, I just in so many ways, I just love giving my energy putting my energy into creating just a wonderful experience for other people. You know, a good day pretty soon Sorry, then

Maureen Holloway  5:00  
you're moved to Prince Edward Island and I do know something about maritime was my mother was one but you're not considered a maritime or unless your third or fourth generation. So, you know until your great grandchildren or if they're still there then they might be acknowledged but

Chef Michael Smith  5:16  
always from away always from away. I wonder my choice though,

Maureen Holloway  5:20  
what propelled you many we went from a Michelin star Big Deal downtown restaurants and some of the capitals of the world? And was this move a bit of a rejection? For you anyway, have that kind of Millia to go out to Pei, which is beautiful, but what hasn't wasn't really considered the culinary capital of the world?

Chef Michael Smith  5:40  
Well, no, it wasn't a rejection, such a big word. And for clarity, this was all more or less 30 years ago. I mean, this is my second kick at the can, of course, at the end of a fortune part of my growing up as a chef was at the end, it was my first chef's posting my head chefs job after Europe after New York City after all those temples after all those big shots, you know, let me let me just get the time it would have been 9019 92 was my first year at the NFA for 292. So what unfortunate time to wash up on the shores of this place that I'll have ours, you know, but you know, Flash forward to today is a struggle to remember the question.

Maureen Holloway  6:25  
I phrased it, it was it wasn't a rejection, but I'm gonna rephrase it because you've given me the opportunity. Was it an embracing of a different type of eating?

Chef Michael Smith  6:34  
It was and it was for me, I'm such an idealistic guy. I mean, look straight up. Let's, you know, stipulate I'm a tree hugger I granola for breakfast, my hair is so long, I do all the things, that's who I am. And, and I can look back so easily, like so many people with so much clarity at this stage of my life, and pretend like I got it all figured out how it went down all those years ago. But really, you know, I can see that I've always been that kind of idealistic person. And, and so, before school before Europe, you know, I was drawn to just this expression of food and art. And as I came to understand the stories and the, the things behind it, I did the traditional things, I went to Europe, I went to the best school that they said at the world at the time and follow the path that the guy really looked up to followed and, and ultimately discovered in that kitchen in Europe,

Wendy Mesley  7:32  
so I'm just wondering, the whole pie thing.

Chef Michael Smith  7:35  
I mean, you I came here on that idealistic path, I came to Prince Edward Island in 1992. That summer, to be the chef at a sleepy country in three years in back then the place had just opened and was, you know, roasted beef and serve and baked ziti at the time with extra whipped cream on dessert, whatever. So it was a big chance for us all in it, and it more or less, wow, it worked. And you know, that was my first time and then off I went for 17 years traveling the world you know, filming multiple shows multiple seasons, you know, I've lost track of them all and the way that when a graded grand adventure course what access so wonderful, but at the same time, you know, as I came to understand so often really the only guy in the room seeing food or everybody else pretty much looking at a prop and there comes a time when that sort of wears you down and the authenticity of all that and all of that, you know sort of brought me and us Chas my wife to the end that second time which is now 10 years ago you know we're 10 years it on on the best part of my life. You know, like this is it here?

Wendy Mesley  8:46  
You're no you're no Gordon Ramsay.

Chef Michael Smith  8:49  
I guess not. No, I couldn't take it. You know, I just it was too much. It's farm to

Maureen Holloway  8:54  
table but it's more than that because you can't get everything on the farm. So what are the pillars? I guess those are that's the word I'm looking for. Yes.

Chef Michael Smith  9:02  
What are the pillars today and perhaps not. The three pillars on the sign out front 10 years ago foreign fire feasts where we still aspired to so much at the time when we open this place. Nobody knew what we were doing we it and we of course didn't know what you're doing and now all these years later, what are the pillars and what have I come to understand and certainly the guest experience is is is the pillar of it all. I think we know things are strong. That's when they stand on three legs. You know that guest experience you know foreign fighter fees, growing all these wonderful vegetables doing the work doing the thing living breathing the thing so app that today this colossal brand new state of the art greenhouse of ours that we just built we just today pulled the final tunnel over top of it. It's officially warming up. Wow. So farm is such a big deal to us the doing of it. But as we sit here talking about pillars You know, skipping to today I know with, with that fortunate wisdom we all get when we get to look back and forward, you know, day after day, it is about the day, it is about figuring out how to express that in business terms. How do we stay focused on the day as a team? How do we have a good day today? Because then and only then, can our guests have a good time today? And so how do we build that structure around that core, culinary team, all those young people, all these leaders, all this, all this incredible talent around me that's built up over 10 years from, I'm not the working chef anymore. I'm not the guy slice and onions anymore. long past that. And so surrounded by so much excellence, and it means so much to Chaz and I that day. And this has grown to permeate all of our business through learning, learn practice, how do we do things right and ethically, and take good care of ourselves, and not ask too much of ourselves, and really mean that when we say it and build a reputation for that earned? And all of those things? How do we do that, and that's captivated us from day one. And I know that that right there expressed today, our culture of learning, you know, what a colossal mess it would be to have that glorious farm of ours and just, you know, take all that wonderful produce, and just bring it to the back door, knock, knock and leave it. You know, it was our cooks in the way it's also integrated in our guests and the way they get to experience it in their way. And, you know, it's just such a wonderful farm, our culinary farm. So all of that, of course, I think is just so important. And it's that learning of course, it's integrated there.

Maureen Holloway  11:44  
So, Michael, I'm a huge advocate. And I know you are to have having family meals, like no matter what else is going on that and it's it's sacred and my boys are grown. They're 25 and 30. But they have no matter what you sit down together, if it's the only thing you do together all day, you sit down for dinner, and you're a big supporter of that, aren't you?

Chef Michael Smith  12:06  
I am I've learned so much from that. My mom insisted on that, that was such an elemental part of my my life growing up two brothers, you know, the three of us, our family coming together daily, I know that that is so, so hardcore me now. And I know that so much of the success even the third pillar, if you will, of the end is simply the shared communal aspect of it. And we're not in normal restaurant, we're just not folks don't comment, do whatever time they choose, or whatever, we all everybody comes at the same time, we all enjoy our time together at the same pace and, and sitting towards the end of that experience. You know, we sit down at great big, long shared communal tables and, and one plus one equals three, you know, we can cook all day long. But the one thing I know and I learned it before, maybe this is why I was drawn to becoming a chef, the thing that my mom taught me that I you know, I know above all else, and again, so hard for a chef to say but it's not what's on the table in the first place that matters is who's there and building a hospitality experience around that and understanding the strength of sharing and communal and the power of all that that that's what we do. You know, that's what I'm proud of.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  13:24  
The women of ill repute.

Wendy Mesley  13:27  
So Michael, I know that you're very anti fast food, anti big food, but so many people I mean, they they love perhaps to be sustainable, like you were they'd love to grow potatoes, they'd love to have all the plants that you have behind you. But they don't and everybody seems to be I don't know, maybe they're poisoning themselves or maybe they've just got two or three jobs and fast food is so easy. Like what what do you do other than what you can?

Chef Michael Smith  13:52  
Yeah, so look, I'm 56 years old, I'm practical, okay, like let's let's be real, like like I'm not anti anything you know, and so much of what we do at the end it really the end was an attempt to get up in the morning and do real you know, that's where I was in my life and things like the in code for this great big giant project of ours chairs and I 10 years ago. So today you know, and even then and maybe that's part of what I was anti at the time was that whole part of my life where I couldn't do anything if I wasn't anti something you know, and I'm not anti anything I'm over that so just get up in the morning and do our thing and and farm and make damn sure that we don't miss the opportunity to harvest every bit of knowledge and practicality out of that. But as it relates to how the rest of the world eats will eat the way you care too. You know but what I am anti what a perhaps remain anti is but don't you dare do it blindly. Don't do it blindly. Don't pretend for a minute, that we're not complicit in this part of it is even more important to understand Now all these years later, who knew, you know, we're over this part of our lifetimes where we're where there was some synchronous societal disconnect with climate change and global warming. And there was this idea of maybe still kicking around. And we're so over that and, and this, of course, leads to the corollary. But what really happened? Well, a very significant chunk of that, a hugely important chunk of that was not transportation, it's cheap food. So let's just be clear with ourselves where all of these corollaries where all these ripples have landed. That's all I want moving forward. Let's get up tomorrow morning and surround ourselves with bright shiny, happy people doing something fun without making guns here, you know, so I don't know it all wrapped up into one great big tasty recipe somehow. Well,

Maureen Holloway  15:52  
it does in certain places. Now I live in Toronto that Toronto is a is a city restaurants and went for better for worse. And as you know, Michelin came to Toronto a couple years ago, along with people go on. A lot of people I mean, there is a whole culture of I don't know how my kids afford it, my certainly my older son, but they they go to all these restaurants and a good portion of their of their income, because they don't have a house goes to dining out and Michelin, you know, all of a sudden becomes a big go Ma, which is much more affordable, become something that they are very familiar with. What's your feel you've worked in Michelin restaurants? What's your feeling on this on this rating system? We

Chef Michael Smith  16:33  
should have a rating system our industry? Of course, you know, I'm I'm not going to answer that way. I guess. I guess, again, I guess I just want everybody to consider what's on the other side of that, you know, what's in the kitchen, what's hidden? I think there's so much wonderful earned excellence at the top of these lists all of them, of course, here in Canada, right there in Toronto, you know, there's so much to be celebrated so much that deserves global recognition. And that consistency of the Michelin rating globally deserves to shine in places like Toronto 100%. So, my, of course, take on that though, the but as you say when these is, but please look what's going on in the kitchen, because I call bullshit on the idea that the end justifies the means that the high price experience in the dining room, somehow you abdicate your responsibility as a consumer, when you've paid the check and go back out the front door, be aware of what's going on. And I don't mean to quote an entire industry. I'm being very careful here. There are so many great examples, working examples in this country right now of people, just like myself, that have figured out authentic working environments, right? This is not some big doom and gloom thing. But it's just that when you put pressure for excellence on any devotion, practice or pursuit and any end of the spectrum in this world of ours as human beings, you know what happens? It does bring out perhaps, bad practices. And in that sluggish devotion to excellence, we lose track of ourselves as humans. I mean, I myself quoted the legendary Charlie Trotter for many years. You know, I found it so interesting, he said at Charlie Trotter, by relentlessly pursuing perfection, we cannot help but achieve a high level of excellence. And I apprenticed in a Michelin three star restaurant, this same one that Gordon Ramsay apprenticed in several years before me and you know, look where it took him. So I've, I've seen the worst of this, and, and I choose not to be a part of that. And, and I call bullshit on those who do choose that, you know, and so I just asked that we all look around, vote with our dollars, call it that, perhaps, and be aware, and be sure that we ask the ratings folks out there to be ecumenical and diverse and to see these things and more or less, that has been a part of the story. Michelin has had to wipe a lot of egg off their face over the last few years around the world to play catch up. And some of the venerable rating institutions of the world even the James Beard house has had to play a little catch up. So wouldn't it be nice to see an award for the most? I don't know, for the best work experience. I know somebody come up with a better name, but But you know what I mean?

Maureen Holloway  19:39  
Yeah, like it in terms of an internal like Best Place to Work from from from the actual staff.

Chef Michael Smith  19:44  
Yeah, and so much of this. So much of this conversation is held and one thing and one thing alone and it is it is tips. It is tips. They're

Maureen Holloway  19:54  
just heading straight there.

Wendy Mesley  19:56  
Yeah, we're gonna ask you about that. I know you're not Saying anything but you're not

Chef Michael Smith  20:01  
tips in every segment of our industry. There is a lot of our industry where where I don't I can't speak to it from direct practice. But I know that at the higher end of the industry like mine, where we have so many options, it's ridiculous. There really shouldn't be tips on any restaurant and you know, Canada's 100 Best or whatever. I mean, I just don't see why we would do business that way anymore. Because in doing so, we're suggesting something else, we're not part of that level of the industry. You know, if we have any aspirations to fine dining or destination dining, or Michelin stars or anything of the sort, we're in a different level with different ethics and morals and a different obligation to do things. Right. So at that level, no. But as we stepped down,

Wendy Mesley  20:52  
how do you how do you do it? Because we know people, yeah, so you charge more food, and no

Maureen Holloway  20:58  
hidden cost, this is what it

Chef Michael Smith  21:00  
is, we charge more, it's just being transparent. We charge more, no hidden costs, we build a proper business, like any other we run a $5 million business. So like any other in any other industry in the country, shouldn't we run it with a strong, who strong metrics and practices and this and that, and so much of that tip culture is full of ambiguity and gray and, and cheating, you know, and taking advantage and listen, that we choose not to do business that way at all. So having said that, we get that there is a part of the industry where, where that seems necessary. And all I can say there is that that industry just needs to continue to do its best to step up and fix these practices. You know, and, and I think we as consumers should legitimately expect the restaurant still to have some kind of fair trade brand, and please let go of this idea that food is cheap and stop bellyaching. When food the prices of it go up? Because look around, you know, and, and all these so called Karen's, and all that Baloney, you know, come on, let it go. It just doesn't work that way. And, and there we are, you know, and so in our world, we charge transparently. And it'll, it affords us and it allows us to take care of this colossal team of ours, every single one of them with the exact same benefits that Camille has, you know, things like that, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and why shouldn't you know,

Wendy Mesley  22:25  
we've got a wrap in just a sec, but I No,

Maureen Holloway  22:28  
no, no, no, no, no, I didn't ask you about here. She does. So yeah, it's a little baby. It's a little frivolous. But so and I don't know what this is going to air but when I watched the Emmys last night, the bear cleaned up the fantastic actors and Matty Matheson who's a was a Toronto got hurt in New Brunswick. Yeah, out of New Brunswick. So and he's a producer on the show, but he was hilarious and his acceptance speech, swore he could never imagine themselves being there. I've watched the bear as they say religiously, it just makes the tension. Watching this and I don't know whether you're a fan or whether you watch it or not. But does it does it? Does it ring a bell with you? Is this a familiar scenario? Does

Chef Michael Smith  23:10  
it ever Yeah, was it ever the bears the best ever for TV accurate depiction of our of our true industry here? You know, that's an obvious and active conversation for chefs. We'd love to have a beer and talk about what movie got to write easy to talk about all the ones that got it wrong. Screw that. But yeah, Ratatouille, Ratatouille, always, always on that list. Even John fabros chef was was was meant meant, but this the bear got it right. And part of why I think they got it right. Because the bear is in a similar position, if you will, to high end restaurants. They needed to pick positive, okay. And they figured out a way of doing it in a respectful way, in a way that portrays a culture moving forward. One of my favorite lines, it's Johnny, I guess, the big brother, he says, I wear suits now.

Maureen Holloway  24:02  
That's no, that's cousin currently. He goes, Yeah, I wear suits now. Or wear suits,

Chef Michael Smith  24:08  
though. Like that shows growth, progress. And there's there's where isn't that the thing? There must be something there must be some burning ember deep into the heart of this thing that's got all of us for all these years wanting it wanting it and and there it is. And that's, that's so authentic. And the bear Of course, the words the bear in the context of that show refers to the dream. And every one of us, the real chefs, not the celebrity chefs, they don't have this dream, to loop us back to the beginning. Those of us you know, that really did the thing. We all had that dream services about to start, we can all tell you an elaborate tale, and we're not ready. We're not ready services about to begin and that's the bear. That's the story. That's the unethical bear in his story. So it's so real. It triggered me like nothing, no media I have ever consumed before. I've had to turn off twice the finale step outside of the room, it was so powerful. So big fan of it, big fan that the bear and season two and beyond is showing us a progression, taking us deeper into how positive things can be, you know, let them do the negative things, whatever. But overall, I think they got our back, you know, they're gonna do well. So yeah, big fan. And

Maureen Holloway  25:25  
of course, it's at the end of the day, it's

Wendy Mesley  25:27  
about family, that love, love and sustainability, really, because it's, it's about making something last for the family. It's lovely. Each

Chef Michael Smith  25:36  
and every one of us, both of you, all of us, just in our own ways, just doing our best today, wherever it is that we've washed up, looking around taking what we have, I'm looking out at the backyard. You know, that's that's what we do. And you know, I hope you hear more or less the same tale with with with all of your other guests.

Wendy Mesley  25:54  
We'd love talking to you. So Michael, thank you. It's wonderful. And it's lovely to hear you talk about all the things that mostly that you love, but a couple that you have. When

Maureen Holloway  26:04  
it comes to you. You're booked up for the next four months, but we're coming to see for sure, at least I am. Yeah, please

Chef Michael Smith  26:10  
do. And please, if you do let us know we would be honored to help. We can be the kind of place that's tough to come to, but we would easily welcome you and all your friends just let us know. Coordinate with Jennifer, I think you already have we can, we'd love to see I think you'd really enjoy your time with us. Pretty special. Thank you for having me. Over now Prince Edward Island.

Wendy Mesley  26:31  
I thank you.

Maureen Holloway  26:36  
I'm hungry. And yet we didn't talk about food. We talked about the idea of food. And the idea of preparing it and serving it and all that kind of that well, we actually never we should mention that his his new book is farmhouse read vegetables, which is full of fantastic, simple, delicious recipes. So there you go.

Wendy Mesley  26:56  
Yeah, it's funny because he's really into foods like I'm a chef. And I've trained and I know about food and I'm going to make people happy with food but he's also really not into food at all. It's all about the experience is all about family is all about love. But I found a really interesting that he's not preaching anymore because we're reading a couple of things just to prepare for the interview with him. The chat with him. I thought he was kind of preachy, but he's, you know, he likes to talk but he's not very preachy. He's kind of

Maureen Holloway  27:23  
just may not anymore, maybe doesn't have to. I'm not kidding, they are booked up months in advance. So, I mean, you have to go to Pei to go there, but I've never been to Prince Edward Island. I've been close but I've never you know got that far. So I've

Wendy Mesley  27:37  
been there probably more as a political reporter than anything else. But so I never really got to know it. And I think there's there's now like 12 people there. There used to be seven there's no

Maureen Holloway  27:48  
and there's more than potatoes on P I obviously so so that's that's a bucket list destination. That was Chef Michael Smith. I like him. Yeah,

Wendy Mesley  27:56  
but I think you really liked it. He liked the bear.

Maureen Holloway  27:59  
Yeah, well, I would have been really disappointed to be added when

Wendy Mesley  28:02  
I was in New York and I wanted to go hey, you're a celebrity and I thought no, you don't. You just stare from a distance? No, no, it's

Maureen Holloway  28:09  
for reals. All right, go make yourself a snack.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  28:13  
Women of ill repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the sound off media company and producer Jet Belgraver.