Carolyn Taylor: Buffoon Makes Good

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of ill repute with your hosts Wendy Mesley. And Maureen Holloway

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
About a year ago. Probably longer we approached Carolyn Taylor to be a guest on the podcast.

Wendy Mesley  0:13  
Yeah, because we well, we thought she'd be perfect given her history with Baroness von sketch. It's a comedy show. And it's still one of the funniest and most original comedy shows ever. She was like the the founder and writer and actress or whatever they

Maureen Holloway  0:28  
are. If you've never seen bareness, first of all, shame on you, but it established, and I've been watching it again and again. It established once and for all that women even or maybe especially middle aged, middle class, often hormonal, silly, ridiculous women, especially those are the funniest people on the planet. But she's

Wendy Mesley  0:49  
kind of moved on from a Baroness and we wanted her on the podcast, as you say, but she couldn't commit to us because she said she was doing this new project that involved figure skating, Whitney Houston, choreography, and Catherine a visit.

Maureen Holloway  1:05  
And we knew we knew for a fact that Carolyn couldn't skate or choreograph or do any of these things. So it was all very mystifying. So

Wendy Mesley  1:13  
the result is I have nothing it's a six part TV series. I have nothing now available on crave. That is I'm not sure I can even she's a comedian, but how on earth would I even describe

Maureen Holloway  1:28  
it? It's a quest. It's it's it's an epic quest? To dream. Okay, yeah. Where Caroline somehow convinces world renowned Olympic skaters and choreographers to create a perfect full length parents routine to Whitney's hit song. I have nothing it's just talking about it makes it sounds so ludicrous.

Wendy Mesley  1:50  
Yeah, she has Liz she has no experience no knowledge about skating choreography, or well, really anything about I'm not

Maureen Holloway  1:59  
gonna lie. We've got Carolyn here. I thought the whole thing started as a joke. Funny But ridiculous enterprise. And I cried all the way through the last two episodes from beginning to end to the point where people ask me what happened to me the day before. I was swollen from crying

Wendy Mesley  2:25  
so are you going to do a Barbara Walters here and try and make Carolyn cry? Because here she is. It's the impossible dream. Hi. Hi,

Carolyn Taylor  2:32  
both. What a beautiful intro. Yeah, we should we should put that what's the Vaseline lens or something make me cry? And we'll do Barbara Walters. I cry easily, or can you know? So

Wendy Mesley  2:44  
it was kind of weird. I remember sending you an email because we you know, as mo says, we were like determined to get you on the podcast. And then and you said, yeah, no problem. And you were probably in the midst of negotiations at that point, unbeknownst to us. And then I sent you something and you sent me back this email saying yeah, I'm gonna choreograph and skate this Olympic level pair skating routine. And I'm like, Yeah, sure. Yeah. You're you're a comedian. Ha, ha, ha, ha, see? Yeah, let me know when

Carolyn Taylor  3:13  
I wrote you, as I remember it, I wrote you. And I said, Do you have any experience in the Olympics? Was that part of your coverage was that you know, skating was that of interest? Because I was still in that in the conjuring phase and trying to bring in you know, any of the people who who it might have meant something to them, especially the ADA the Olympics. And yeah, when do you think Well, no, not not specifically that like, I can't remember what something like Oh, anyway, good luck. I was like,

Maureen Holloway  3:37  
I think she might be having some sort of breakdown.

Carolyn Taylor  3:41  
My midlife it might be actually a midlife break down entirely possible.

Wendy Mesley  3:46  
I thought it was a joke. I didn't realize that it was real. And then we watched the show, and we got kind of well, Mo will tell you that she particularly got over clumped.

Carolyn Taylor  3:55  
Yeah, it was an emotional experience it I didn't realize how much of an effect it was going to have on me. And also on other people watching. I really, it was I think there's a part of the interview where I'm going to be on camera, I say I didn't think I felt. So I was like, Oh, this will be fun. We'll do this. And then as you get as I got deeper and deeper into the process, it was like, oh, there's no fucking around. Like, you've got to do this. And, and the one thing I promised Sandra and promised the skaters is If anyone looks bad, foolish, delusional, it'll be me. But I needed to make sure they were going to look good. This routine was going to be good that they, you know, I mean, they make themselves look good. They're Olympians. But you know what I'm saying? Like I felt this responsibility that I don't know if that's antithetical to comedy. I'm not sure but it was something it was. It was interesting to leave the critical distance of the comedian and just be like, No, I'm just doing this now. And I'll trust it will be funny in its own way. But the trajectory of the series it's like goes from what I think is a pretty funny episode one and two, and then there's Oh, you're always, you know laughing through but it gets it starts to twist almost into. We joke like sports doc needs psychological thriller.

Maureen Holloway  5:09  
Interesting the ethical responsibility of the comedian? Because yeah, I mean, I have so many practical questions that I hesitate to ask you about the making of this because it's a bit of a fairy tale the way that it's constructed. But I'm well aware that it probably didn't all take place in that particular chronology, getting the rights to the song, I know that that was a last minute thing. 

Carolyn Taylor  5:36  
But fairy tale is a really interesting way of putting it, it kind of ended up feeling that way that wasn't necessarily the intent going in. But that's how it you know, sometimes a project takes you on its own course. And it was like, Oh, this is, wow, this is how it's unfolding. And of course, it's not as fun to talk about how the sausage is made. You're like, I just want to enjoy the delicious sausage. So the chronology is pretty close. It's pretty close. I did see the psychic on the first day. I think we we put her sort of a third of the way in but she was on my first day of shooting. I barely knew the crew. And you know, I've done some interviews with my sister Zach and I, Zach was directing an exec producing with me and we did some interviews, and then headed to the psychic. And it was my first day with the crew and I didn't think I was going to be brought to tears or teary in my first day on set. It was like, oh, gosh, what's happening? But she was I don't know there was something I went with an open heart and I decided again and true to her as well. Anyone I'm not looking, trying to make fun of psychics like I, I love reading Tarot.

Wendy Mesley  6:43  
So I have a questions about the bananas and the Tarot. But but first I think we've got to lay out like you got some really big like some legends you mentioned Sandra, Sandra bezeq. She was like the world famous or Canadian famous anyway, choreographer,

Carolyn Taylor  6:57  
no world world famous. Yeah,

Wendy Mesley  6:59  
David Peltier who I didn't like it for I ended up loving him.

Carolyn Taylor  7:02  
Isn't he just the sweet? It takes a while though. I was scared of him. And then

Maureen Holloway  7:08  
he's very intimidating. And when that line where he goes, something like I see you Carolyn Taylor, or just acknowledging you it was like I went, Oh, she's doing this thing. Yeah, he was very impressive. Go on with the story.

Wendy Mesley  7:22  
Yeah, so no, so there's all of these big names like David, pelle, che Cattier, Katerina, Gordy, Ava, like, it just goes on and on and, and you approach them and you said, Yeah, I'm gonna, I don't know really how to skate. And I definitely don't know how to choreograph, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you what to do. Like, really? I know that more would like to ask all kinds of terrible questions about like, someone did you get them on? And how much did you pay them and whatever. But

Maureen Holloway  7:50  
I don't know how the sausage is made any more than anybody know, I do want to know how

Wendy Mesley  7:54  
the sausage is made. I do. But when you pitch them, and you said, So do that. twirly thing, like

Carolyn Taylor  8:03  
I mean, one of the most humiliating moments for me was the first day and Zach said do the routine for them. Because the routine of course I do on stage but and it's horrible. It'd be like doing your comedy set in the living room, like just Oh, you don't want to do that. And in front of them something that made audiences laugh on stage. Now I'm saying this is my vision for you. It was so like, inside myself, I'm cringing and I know you gotta do it. This is the show and seeing their faces as I'm acting out things that of course, they're not going to be able to do because they're physically not possible. Some of the moves it I think, David, we don't have it on camera, but I think right after he saw me do that he was like, taxi out here. But they of course at that point had flown in from Edmonton. So they were on board. And of course, you know, their relationship with Sandra bezeq was, you know, of course hugely influential as far as their ability to take a chance on me. She said you can trust her. And so they said, okay, but still, they had to listen

Maureen Holloway  9:07  
to me. Yeah, ever really was key. I mean, once you had Sandra, everything fell into place, more or less.

Carolyn Taylor  9:13  
The skating pieces for sure. And just as a creative mind, she's you know, she was wonderful to talk to

Maureen Holloway  9:20  
formed a real friendship. And the music was the other. Oh, Michael

Carolyn Taylor  9:23  
Perlmutter what I put him through like, and it was so fun doing that scene with him. I think it's episode two and again, and maybe three. Yeah, what a good sport and he had to work really hard. We didn't realize that, you know, David Foster was going to be a Slippery Eel. And with music rights. I mean, I really didn't know much about them at all. I was like, we get the rights and it's like, no, you know, the Houston estate could say no, I don't want to or we don't feel like it or there was a biopic coming out at the same time so that we had some restrictions like we can't play it till after that day. I can't remember there were anywhere else. Words of restrictions when the by the Whitney biopic, yes, sorry. There were so many hoops to jump through and one of the producers from Blue, and she's based in New York, met me in Toronto. And she said, So she'd watched the first two cuts of the series rough cuts. And she's like, so we got on board and gave you money without you having the rights to the song. Like she I don't even think she realized she was like, what? Second?

Wendy Mesley  10:26  
It's called, I have nothing.

Carolyn Taylor  10:30  
Right. But we had a great team of people working as you all know, you know, there's we showed the fairy tale, but there's a lot of zoom meetings and Excel spreadsheets and people working tirelessly to get IOC Olympic footage and rights cleared. You know, people work very hard behind the scenes.

Wendy Mesley  10:47  
I think we're getting a sense of why you did it. But it's really interesting to think, for other people like when you describe it, like my reaction was like, Yeah, right. This is a joke. She's a comedian. Ha ha ha ha ha, good luck. But then you did it. And then Maureen tried to tell members of her family, but I told my husband about it. And he was like, oh, yeah, so it's like a mockumentary like that dog show thing? And I'm like, no, no, it's it's not. It's completely real, like you sort of met so you've cut two versions. One was the funny version. And then you decided, no, that doesn't? Well,

Carolyn Taylor  11:20  
not exactly. No, we cut I mean, we moved along through the series, we had restrictions around the song. So we did have another scenes where you see us listening in headsets to the song, we were shooting those because we didn't know if we don't get the rights, we can't lose that entire scene. So when I'm lying on the grass with named Martin listening to the song, we could have put it on a little speaker. But we had it in our headsets in case we don't get the song and we have to make another choice for the series. Now, of course, I wasn't completely deluded. I knew we had a very good chance of getting you know, we were going for it. But we had to have a contingency, you know, in case. So no, it's not a mockumentary, because a mockumentary is fake like say it's waiting for Guffman or Best in Show, let's say it's two great examples of documentaries. They're not actually putting on the play. And they're not actually at a dog show. Where's this is actually got performed. It was actually choreographed by me with Olympians. Now it's a comedy do we make some funny edits? Do we sometimes like Wendy was pointing to earlier, things are a little off for the storytelling. But like we did the things, those are my actual friends, not actors talking about me. That's my childhood friend is like she's a dreamer. But her dreams are really weird. It's my friend since we were 10. You know,

Maureen Holloway  12:38  
speaking of friends, you and a Martin should collaborate again. A lot. You're a lovely pair. Again, it's the Don Quixote, Sam Sansho thought of imagery, but she's both incredibly supportive, but her face erect all our feelings. Yeah,

Carolyn Taylor  12:56  
they really are a tremendous comedian, and great, you know, foil and also observer, someone had had sort of labeled them as the Greek chorus. So that, you know, they were really it was really fun to do that with me. And they had been on stage with me and I think Halifax several years earlier when I'd performed it at a pride and they flew in and did their material. And I did the Whitney Houston piece. So they had firsthand seen this thing. And then when I told them, the show was greenlit, they were like, What are you talking about? Like how? So? Yeah, they were perfect. I was so so happy that could be there.

Wendy Mesley  13:34  
Yeah. So they say at some point, she's forgotten. She's a comedian.

Maureen Holloway  13:41  
Kool Aid, she's gone down the rabbit hole. Totally.

Wendy Mesley  13:44  
And did you like you look so exhausted? And like, how did you keep the faith during the whole thing? Like, did you know it was gonna work out? Or that's why you had two versions? Well,

Carolyn Taylor  13:53  
I mean, I think the network had asked us before we got the green light. Well, what if you don't get the rights to the song, for example? Does that mean the show's tanks and we can air it? And so Zach, and I wrote a whole thing of Oh, no, no, no, it'll be funny. Either way. We'll make it work. You know, whether the skaters have to skate and it's silent. And we say press play on your mp3 player. I don't know. We just basically said, and I guess this was the safety net of the show. Let's the comedy, right. So if things really started to go off, we could always use that as comedic fodder. Or as like my dissent could become funny, but at the same time, making sure the skaters are looking good like it was a real balancing act.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  14:40  
The women of ill repute Carolyn

Maureen Holloway  14:42  
watching this, like your pink cheeks, which were from either being cold or being flushed or being embarrassed. The vulnerability is a big risk to take because you're you're allowing that side of you to be shown and I don't I mean, you didn't act with Baron s when it was all humorous has to be to a certain extent not to vanity oriented, you have to be able to put yourself out there. But you really, really did in this. We

Carolyn Taylor  15:08  
didn't have a hair and makeup team until you know that final, the final episode when we were, you know, performing the big show we did. And that's when Sandra says, you know, normally the choreographer doesn't get hair and makeup. And in a series normally the lead does, you know, usually that happens and wardrobe. So instead, I was sort of left to my own devices, which I think actually, I don't even know if that was a conscious decision. It may have just been a budgetary decision on our part. But it ended up being a very smart decision, because then I'm wearing really my own clothes, throwing on what I've got, and that list the hat I was wearing. And then it worked. You know, it popped, and it was like, Oh, these choices, like people are like, Oh, the full gene. It's like, well, I often do leave the house in all gene. So the vulnerability you're talking about? Yeah, Moynihan said, Oh, you it's a deeply feminist act to go out there. And I like have, I mean, I put on my own makeup, I put a little concealer. I don't know, whatever the small people who don't wear much makeup, wear those things, you know, like little things to try to look okay. So yeah, but I was happy to just look like my self, I think, because it would have probably taken me out of it. If I was fooling.

Wendy Mesley  16:22  
Kristen Wiig, who I think is really funny. She's a comedian. And then she went into movies, and I miss her so much doing like, I'm maybe she still does a bit of stand up on the side, but I don't see her as much anymore. But you like you're probably the same age, you're not like 12 anymore. And you're deciding to do something that's really, really hard and put yourself out there. And he's like, why don't you just go off and like read scripts and do movies and be famous?

Carolyn Taylor  16:46  
It's just so easy. There's so many scripts here. The authors landing on me all the time. You know, we're a 4050 year old. Yeah, it's it's really, there's tons. Like my friends, like I kind of am a dreamer. And I like dreaming things up. And I like making art and collaborating and projects and music. And I like doing that. Now, of course, if I were off here offering some great movie role I'd, I'd probably say, yeah, for sure. Thanks. But I really do like making people laugh. And I like ventures and, and this one, it just was kicking around, and I couldn't get it out of my head. So it felt like something really fun to pursue and the team. Like we all everyone got behind it. They had questions, but soon we were just all you know, going along.

Maureen Holloway  17:38  
Now, this is a sincere takeaway from watching the show, Wendy and I are you know, not quite the next generation after you are ahead of you. But we're older. Just had discussion about this before you came on. I hate saying it. I hate it. Oh, hold

Wendy Mesley  17:53  
on, hold on. Sorry.

Maureen Holloway  17:57  
But it might take away. Like, when did I started this podcast two years ago? Right? Again, this is sort of like when you're supposed to Why aren't you two retired? Hell no. Why would we be? That's such a strange to me. Retired means withdrawing from the world, and watching your crazy dream take place? And told so well, I found and I'm sure a lot of other people are like, yeah, why the hell don't I follow my dreams, except, first of all, you have to have a dream. And in your case, a very specific vision of what you want to do. And if you shouldn't be able to at least try.

Carolyn Taylor  18:34  
We'll try and for sure. And also finding out the medium or or, I mean, in my case, I was talking to Zach the other day, and we were sort of trying to figure out it's like the dream allowed for the TV show. And the TV show allowed the dream, you know, like they really allowed each other to exist, if that makes sense. And so for other people's, you know, dreams or visions, or I mean, it's sort of finding it, what's the thing you're good at, because I you know, I understand comedy and television. So that is a world that I could move through even though when I had the vision of this. I'm like, I'll just do it in any old rink. If I could just get the skaters to do this. I don't Carmex

Maureen Holloway  19:13  
my kids have played hockey there it was.

Carolyn Taylor  19:18  
Exactly, but I think it's really fun. And it also shows it's not one person doing it all. It's literally a team of people like there was no one expendable. We all needed to be there to get the thing done and the rinks booked in the you know, the audience for the finale. I mean, oh my god, there were so many so many jobs.

Wendy Mesley  19:38  
So are you a skater now, are

Carolyn Taylor  19:40  
you? Well, listen, I have those fancy black skates

Wendy Mesley  19:45  
no most poop in them that that was

Carolyn Taylor  19:48  
the old parent most pooping 100% true moment that they had been in the cellar and that's what was in them. Know the fancy black ones when I spoke to Sandra early I was like, oh, maybe we'll do a scene where we go to, you know, skate shopping. Like we go to Canadian Tire and we find me some skates and she's like, you don't go shopping for skates. They come to you like she just the thought, oh, there's a store with skates. No, no, someone comes and they fit you and they put the skates in an oven or something and your foot gets baked into them. All right. Well, that's I can't remember the exact process. But I did put my feet into hot skates, and then stand there for 10 minutes, I think while they shrink wrapped around my feet or something, do

Maureen Holloway  20:29  
we actually think we all learn to skate as Canadian girls? And I grew up in Montreal as well with these, and they're still making them they're, they're the most hideous instruments of torture. They're not made with any padding. They're awful. Those skates

Carolyn Taylor  20:45  
we grew up with, like people have said, Oh, so you wanted to be a skater since you were a child. I'm like, no, no, no, no, I didn't. I in fact, partially disliked skating as a kid because I'm in these horrible like, skates. My ankles are going in. We're in Montreal. So it's freezing. My memories are being in the change room with my mom crying because my feet are burning, you know, after they freeze, and then they thaw and it's that searing pain. So yeah, my memories of skating are like, Oh, I'm not good at this.

Maureen Holloway  21:16  
I have to just it just came to be. We used to go skating it at there was an outdoor rink at West Park and the West Island and was same thing and it'd be a little hot that you could put but it wasn't heated. So you just started cold. And you'd skate around with so much fun. And then I remember going home sitting in the backseat. This is just coming to me now with my skates and going. I wonder what would happen if I licked the blade? Oh. Yay. Did you Oh,

Wendy Mesley  21:45  
oh no. I

Maureen Holloway  21:49  
thought to me now oh, reporting for coffee.

Carolyn Taylor  21:56  
Like people do it with a cold pole. And you think that's dumb. But like I said,

Wendy Mesley  22:03  
but a blade Oh, so now you're seeing is this huge boon. Like everybody in the skating world apparently loves you like you. Yeah, you're like this hero of the skating world. Who would have thunk it? Who would have thunk them? I

Carolyn Taylor  22:20  
mean, listen, that skating world, they are so loyal to each other. I mean, I was again, looking at a certain cohort, right? So I don't know all the skaters are not the person who knows all of them. But the ones who are in the show and sort of around that generation of skater. They really I think Barbara Underhill said it in Episode Six. She's like, this is like a class reunion. Like for them just to have them all come together. I said to Zack early on, I'd be happy just to sit at another table. I don't even have to be in the scene. I just want them to be together. You know, when you sort of look at the people you idolized. And just want them to hang out and talk and you're like, Don't mind me. I'll be at the other table. But they were so generous with their time and, and their trust

Wendy Mesley  23:04  
and you change the skating world. Well, just

Carolyn Taylor  23:08  
imagine, until I choreograph an Olympic routine out of the Olympics. I will not change the skating world. We

Maureen Holloway  23:16  
should mention Katarina because she's almost like a ghost presence. And I don't want to give too much away. But she has a presence in the we invoke her

Carolyn Taylor  23:26  
spirit many times and just that footage. I mean you both were you glued to the TV and ADA watching her like

Maureen Holloway  23:36  
that's what those Olympics meant as much to me Well, maybe not as much to me as to you but a lot those Olympics were really important. I was in Ottawa not

Wendy Mesley  23:43  
watching So You weren't watching. I've heard of Calgary. I wasn't live in at

Maureen Holloway  23:51  
Olympic family like yours like we just watched we still didn't

Carolyn Taylor  23:54  
so 88 is in infamy and as well 76 that were in Montreux. But of course, I think as my sister mentions, I was three and I didn't get to go. I got a pinwheel. So Nadia come and he I remember Oh, the whole family son no common he Oh, yeah. Great. Okay. But add a category in a bit. Oh, my God, that routine was something else. So

Wendy Mesley  24:16  
we're not allowed to reveal that. Well, she's a ghost. She's She's a ghost and the costumes are amazing. But But I want to I guess it sort of goes back to like, you change the whole skin world. What do you take away from from this? What did you learn? Or is it just you showing everybody that you got to have a dream and you gotta go for it?

Carolyn Taylor  24:36  
I don't know. I think I'm still learning from the experience. We sort of capture it a bit in and six after the skate. And I'm just like, I was really out of it. After that. I really was like, what happened? Like this was amazing. But what happened? How did this happen? And I think in our lives, if we work towards a dream, usually it's over a much longer period of time. And what we're working towards exists for a longer time, potentially, this isn't me just sort of trying to make sense of it. And so this idea that I worked in such a focused amount of time, here's this routine, and then it's over. It's done. And so that idea of I have nothing, which sort of resonates on different levels. It's like, oh, you can't have anything, you can create something, and then it D materializes, and people go off, and it's over and wait a second, what do any of us have? Maybe that's depressing, but something about that,

Maureen Holloway  25:33  
especially theater, you put on a show, you worked for months and months, and then the show happens, and you have a run. And then I remember doing that as a kid and just being absolutely devastated when it was over. Because the connections

Carolyn Taylor  25:46  
you make with the other people, and you inhabit the character and the world, and it becomes part of your life, it's like, and I felt that when I was choreographing, and sort of skating, you know, every morning getting up and going, there was something really beautiful and expansive and terrifying about that, that you to inhabit that world. Yeah, it was really, it was quite overwhelming. It was a lot of sensory stimulus. Which

Wendy Mesley  26:14  
brings us back to the bananas. So whenever you got freaked out, you would eat or just generally you eat a lot of bananas. What's what's going on with bananas? Well, I

Carolyn Taylor  26:24  
mean, in my life, I certainly enjoy a banana. But I'm like, I don't want a green banana. I don't want an old banana with the gross bits on it. I need it perfect or I don't want one. But I guess it was one of the things around and it sort of you knew Oh, I'm going to have sustenance and I don't have to sit down and eat a big meal. And then it just I guess next thing you know and Zack was great we were very you know as you know with improv that yes and philosophy it's like oh, well let's have another banana around and then it became a very easy treat for me to enjoy that didn't get your hands dirty you know and Anyway next thing you know yeah, I'm the person who eats bananas all the time helped but I really in life enjoy a banana but it's not my I don't usually have that much physical output either. So that I guess I need to get through

Wendy Mesley  27:18  
it's a wonderful series. It's hard to explain to somebody like me like at the beginning the stupid email I was like yeah, it was very funny. Very Funny Girl I want to get back to when you're done. But it's beautiful it's a beautiful series it

Maureen Holloway  27:32  
is you cried she cried. Not everyone's asking you what are you doing now? What are you doing?

Carolyn Taylor  27:40  
I'm recovering still. I have another idea actually for season if we should get to Season Two you know television fff all those things. So there is something else cooking. That is a true dream and desire. So that and I was I have said to a couple of people if you watch the series in fact, there are

Unknown Speaker  28:02  
clues. Oh, you could

Carolyn Taylor  28:05  
maybe watch it backwards and on acid and you might know what

Wendy Mesley  28:12  
I'm doing this weekend

Carolyn Taylor  28:17  
anyway yeah, so something else and then I'm not sure I go I do go fallow sometimes that sort of, I kind of couldn't go go go and then get very quiet. And that's allowed I think that's allowed that I think that's the only way sometimes to do it. So let's see. Well,

Wendy Mesley  28:35  
it's lovely. Thank you so much for eventually being part of this there were there was a series in between which turned out it's great. Well, I'm

Carolyn Taylor  28:42  
glad we had to wait till now or we'd be talking about this project and you'd be like Yeah, yeah, but anyway.

Maureen Holloway  28:49  
Like no one's really lost it but anyway, tell us about Baron s

Carolyn Taylor  28:54  
great talking to you both

Maureen Holloway  28:57  
you guys enjoy your dinner together. Oh yeah.

Carolyn Taylor  29:00  
Let's go Yeah.

Wendy Mesley  29:04  
I think more wants to be invited won't

Carolyn Taylor  29:06  
right now we'll find a place to sleep and all the things

Wendy Mesley  29:14  
ah,

Maureen Holloway  29:15  
I have a dream if you're watching this on on YouTube, which you can or even three just follow the links for our website at women of ill repute.com You will see that Wendy and I My dream is that she's not dressed the same way.

Wendy Mesley  29:30  
Well, it's almost the same I think we should have got Carolyn to wear like the same

Maureen Holloway  29:38  
shade of blue, but without knowing and the same shade of lipstick and we have short hair and it's like this has nothing to do with Carolyn. We'll get to that in a second. But I mean, we should at least try not to confuse people.

Wendy Mesley  29:53  
Yeah, no, I think we should get like little uniforms with women of ill repute across the front and then hand them out to everybody. And I don't it's kind of ridiculous. I loved her was that it was worth waiting a year and I'm glad well now our podcast is over because we've recorded Carolyn and then we're, we're all done. No, she's, she's, she's lovely. And, and it was fun to talk about, like not just the obvious stuff about doing something really strange and loving it and creating something, but also about the sausage and all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. It's really It's interesting. I mean, we never got to find out exactly how much David Peltier was paid for.

Maureen Holloway  30:31  
Something that I wanted to bring up. I wasn't gonna ask her horrible questions like, What did you pay them to get them to do that?

Wendy Mesley  30:37  
I didn't want it. That's what we really wanted to know.

Maureen Holloway  30:40  
Take away from the from the magic of the story. Didn't get these huge names. Or brownies in there. Yes, Katerina, which shows up to say that she's there. Do you have to see the she's a ghost. She's

Wendy Mesley  30:53  
a ghost. Yes, yeah.

Maureen Holloway  30:54  
So all this happened. And I mean, you know that they didn't just agree because Carolyn Taylor's a comic genius, although she is probably they didn't even know who she was the subcases. So there had to be money involved. But that doesn't. At the end of the day, that does not take away from the fact that she pitched this crazy idea. And enough people bought into it to make it happen. I mean, that you can't take that away from and as inspiring as hell. It really

Wendy Mesley  31:20  
is. Yeah, no, the first first series I was like, wow, this is great. Second Series. I was like, I don't know. I'm 30 years. I was like, Oh, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

Maureen Holloway  31:30  
But did you notice in the interview, she's she had to stick in? Yes. And which is we've been preaching the value of that from the very beginning. So I knew it was all a plant was all like the whole the whole thing was just a plant for us. And with him coming around to the point that we started this podcast almost two years ago, talking about yes, and and journalists go no, but so that's sort of the crux of of what I think we bring to the table. But anyway, I thought it was really inspiring. And I think there's a lot to be said, for doing something like I think I'm very proud of this podcast and I think this is something that we did all by ourselves. We started out with absolutely nothing. And you know what, we still don't

Wendy Mesley  32:12  
we have not yet but now you're going to do acids and watch her series and for clues. Backwards dream.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  32:21  
Women of ill repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the sound off media company and producer Jet Belgraver.