A Year of Repute

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Women of Ill Repute, with your hosts Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway.

Maureen Holloway  0:07  
Happy Christma-Hanuk-Kwanzaa-ka.

Wendy Mesley  0:12  
Happy holidays. Is that what you're trying to say?

Maureen Holloway  0:15  
I'm trying to be inclusive. And if we've learned anything at all, it's that you can't please all the people all the time.

Wendy Mesley  0:20  
Yeah, it's true. In fact, you know, some of the most interesting people, they don't even bother trying.

Maureen Holloway  0:25  
And you know, maybe that's what most of our guests on this podcast have in common. They're true to themselves, and they rarely do things conventionally. So welcome. Welcome to a Year of Ill Repute. It's our year end episode.

Wendy Mesley  0:38  
Wow. A whole year. Yeah. So we've taken a look back at our first full year of podcasting, because we started- I think it was late June, 2022. 1000 years ago. We've put out 66 episodes.

Maureen Holloway  0:51  
Whoa, that is a lot of putting out.

Wendy Mesley  0:54  
Yeah, well, we're not called Women of Ill Repute for nothing. We don't make a lot of money. But we do- no, we- well, actually...

Maureen Holloway  1:02  
We don't make a lot of money. If we're doing it for money, we're doing something wrong.

Wendy Mesley  1:08  
Anyway, we did- We went through the archives, and we picked out some of our most notable guests, so.

Maureen Holloway  1:14  
It's funny, it's not necessarily the most famous ones, or even the ones that we liked the most. Because of course, we love all our guests equally.

Wendy Mesley  1:21  
Well, of course. So this is not a best-of show, more like a bunch of highlights, maybe the occasional low light, but it's been interesting and newsworthy. It's been a great year for a number of people who've come on the pod. So let's both look back and catch up on the special holiday edition of Women of Ill Repute.

Maureen Holloway  1:41  
You mean the Christma-Hanuk-Kwanzaa-ka edition.

Wendy Mesley  1:44  
I do not.

Maureen Holloway  1:53  
Well we started off the year with a slight change in direction. We decided to take on men.

Wendy Mesley  1:57  
Yay, men. Yay, women, too. Yay non-binary people. We actually learned a lot about gender and sexuality. It seems to be constantly shifting. Can be confusing, but having Rick Mercer on as our first man was an easy choice.

Maureen Holloway  2:14  
Rick has a brand new book out, it's called The Road Years, which you might have ended up with under the tree. Now, of course, Rick became famous, or maybe notorious, for his comedy bit talking to Americans, which he told us he now regrets.

Rick Mercer  2:29  
When I did the first segment of Talking to Americans, my father, who I adore, he called me up and he was like, wow, Jerry next door says he loved that talking to Americans thing, and wanted to know if you're ever going to do it again. And I said, Dad, you wouldn't believe, this thing is exploding. And he said, promise me something. And I said, what's that? He said, never ever do that again. And then he started going on about how- in the Halifax explosion, how the American sent up all the coats and all the wonderful things of this relationship. And there you are making fun of the Americans. Of course, I did it non stop for the next two years. But I always felt a little bad about it. And I always thought it was a bit small of us, what we were doing. It wasn't inherently fair. But you know, they're massive. We're small. Why would they know who the Prime Minister is or where Saskatchewan is? That's not their high suit.

Wendy Mesley  3:18  
Rick Mercer's latest book is called The Road Years. And speaking of literature, a lot of authors on the show. We spoke to Giller Prize winner Suzette Mayr, whose book The Sleeping Car Porter was also nominated for the Governor General's Award. And Suzette talks to us about writing about black joy.

Suzette Mayr  3:39  
I find that the stories that seem to get the most attention, usually, are the ones that have to do with slavery and tragedy and pain and black suffering. And I just- I don't want to do that. I'm tired of that. And I was talking to- I was a host at the University of Calgary and Bernadine Evaristo was the writer in residence there. And she started talking about black joy. And I'm like, what is it- what are you talking about? What is this black joy? And there's a video online that went viral, and it's just of black people laughing. And it was- it's been seen, like, millions and millions of times, because it's just so- you know, when you see black people in, you know, in the mainstream news, it's like this person is dead, or they've been arrested, or they're suffering from starvation or whatever, it's so rare to see- 

Maureen Holloway  4:25  
Or they're very angry. 

Suzette Mayr  4:26  
Or they're extremely angry. Yeah. And so I needed to read a book that was- hadn't been published yet, which is having a truly happy ending for a black queer person.

Maureen Holloway  4:36  
Earlier this year, Suzette Mayr was joined on the bestseller list by a total newcomer. Radio and TV host Roz Weston, who's now just a radio host, decided to write an autobiography called A Little Bit Broken, dealing with his own addiction and broken relationships.

Roz Weston  4:53  
One of the things when I sat down to write this- write this book, is that I was obsessed with the notion, where we are today, that we don't fix things anymore, we replace them. And whether that be friends or our phones or relationships, you know, we don't fix things anymore. We- if it's broken, we replace it. And it's that easy.

Wendy Mesley  5:16  
Or just go on Tinder and you swipe and you have, you know, you just find another one.

Roz Weston  5:19  
Yeah, and that's- and that's it, like a $900 phone, like, it's- you know, there's no fixing anything anymore. And so I was- I was a little bit obsessed with that, because my dad was a fixer, and my- everything, everything in his life got a second chance. And it wasn't particularly done well, and he wasn't artistic, but when he was done with it, it would work and it would do the thing that it was supposed to do. But everything got a second chance. And when I sat down to write this book, because my dad, you know, was dead, and he died at a point before there was a lot of permanent record of people. I don't have any audio of my dad, I don't think I have any video of my- of my dad, you know, we have sort of photo albums. And one of the things that I realized is that, you know, when I go, so will, you know, him, basically, right? He goes when I go, because my brother and I are the sort of, you know, keepers of his stories. And we're the ones who will tell his stories, you know, when- when they're gone. And I wanted to leave a permanent record of my dad, right? Because I thought that he deserved that. And I felt like I owed it to him because he was so incredible. And- and I didn't just do it for my dad, I sort of did it for all the dads that were great, and then disappeared. And once the people who are around to tell their stories are gone, they're gone. And that was heartbreaking to me. And so a big part of this was making sure that there was a record that he was awesome.

Maureen Holloway  6:46  
Roz ended the book as a proposal to his longtime girlfriend, Katherine. And guess what? They just got married earlier this month. So congrats, you crazy cats.

Wendy Mesley  6:55  
Yeah, so great. You know, one of the most refreshing and interesting people we met this year was Samantha Irby. She's a writer, another writer for big deal TV shows like Sex and the City, you might have heard of it, her latest book, Quietly Hostile, has been on the New York Times bestseller list for most of the year. Among other revelations with us, Sam says you don't have to love your body. Because sometimes your body has little to do with who you are.

Roz Weston  7:22  
I just think you have to get to whatever place in yourself where you can just keep going and understand when things aren't for you, or that you don't have to adhere to what people are saying, you know? If you don't ever want to wear shorts, don't wear 'em. If you do anything different, people will always remind you that what you're doing is different. And just like, stand in what's good for you. I don't like to feel my arms touching other things. So I put sleeves on them. And that's okay. Even if it's 90 degrees. Marching to the beat of your own drummer, and like drowning everyone else out.

Maureen Holloway  8:07  
It was a big year for Marilyn Denis. She decided to step down from her national TV talk show, a decision she was toying with when we spoke to her. Are people saying to you, well, gee, Marilyn, how much longer are you gonna do this? And how do you feel about that?

Marilyn Denis  8:07  
They ask me all the time. And I always say, well, if they don't want me anymore, they should let me know, hopefully in a nice way. But I also think if I'm not finding joy in it anymore, or I have the energy to do it anymore, to do it to the level I want to do it. Another answer is, you know, I have a husband and a grandchild now. Every other week, I help her mom out or pick her up after school, and then we keep her till 6:30, 7 o'clock. But anyway, you know, you never get those years back. So it's a combination of all those things. I do want to work and I do want to have purpose. I'd love to sleep in someday soon. But I don't know when that's gonna happen. So the answer to your question is, I'm not sure. But right now, I'm in, and then when I'm not, we'll figure that one out.

Maureen Holloway  9:03  
Marilyn is still hosting mornings on CHUM FM, so I really don't know how much he gets to sleep in.

Wendy Mesley  9:08  
Yeah, well, you would remember that. 

I would. 

Yeah, you used to get up at an unreasonable hour.

Maureen Holloway  9:14  
An ungodly hour. There was no God at that hour.

Wendy Mesley  9:18  
So Marilyn, she left really big shoes to fill, and into those shoes stepped Mary Berg, who is now host of The Good Stuff with Mary Berg. Mary started as a chef, and she says- she told us- that the kitchen is different. It's her safe place.

Mary Berg  9:35  
I'm very type A. I like things orderly, I like things done a certain way. And in the kitchen, that's the like one place that that side of my brain shuts off. If I make a bit of a mess, if I drop something, if things don't go exactly how I want them to go, that's the like one area in my life that I don't then want to walk into the lake about. Because there's only so many things that can go wrong in the kitchen, and all of them are remedy-able. Like, all of them you can fix with, like, a pizza. Like you can just order something. But pretty much everything else is just kind of trial and error and letting go of the exact measurements, letting go of following a recipe to a T, just kind of like going with where your gut takes you. That to me is like, my main secret in the kitchen, and that's what works for me.

Wendy Mesley  10:21  
By the way, the name "Good Stuff" comes from the movie Ratatouille, where he, the rat, says "If you are what you eat, then I only want to eat the good stuff."

Maureen Holloway  10:32  
Which brings us to Ivy Le. Now Ivy is a comedian and a podcaster based in Austin, Texas, and she calls herself an indoorswoman. Her show was called FOGO, as in fear of going outside. It's a nature show for people who find nature uncomfortable. She, Ivy, even took up hunting.

Ivy Le  10:50  
I eat meat. I love meat. I love to cook it, you know, and I love to eat it, and I really don't want to give it up. If I couldn't kill it myself, then I shouldn't eat it. So there is kind of that question confronting me that way. If I'm too much of a wimp to do it myself, then if I can't stomach, you know, the death of something, then I should stop eating the meat, because buying meat at the store doesn't absolve you. You're just hiring a hitman, right? It doesn't absolve you from guilt. You're just doing it for convenience.

Maureen Holloway  11:24  
Keep an eye out for Ivy Le, especially if you need something reluctantly butchered.

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  11:34  
The Women of Ill Repute.

Wendy Mesley  11:35  
As you can see, not all of our guests are famous, at least not yet. Sheila McCarthy, though, she remains transcendent. She is one of this country's most honored actors. She was part of the ensemble cast of Women Talking, which of course was Sarah Polley's Oscar winning movie. So Sheila, she can swing from deep drama to comedy, and make it all look easy.

Sheila McCarthy  11:58  
Acting is acting, and I always go from a place of, you know, what is the character not good at? What are their foibles? What are their flaws? Because there's so much to mine in comedy that way, and in drama too. And I love the flaws. The only real technical difference might be speed and dexterity. When you're doing comedy, you need to be on your toes like a tap dancer and you need to be ready to fly. And it's a little bit faster sometimes. You know, dramatic actors can take big dramatic pauses and can take their time and drive you crazy. But it all comes from kind of the same place. For me, it's really just acting, and I don't favor one over the other.

Maureen Holloway  12:34  
You know, I don't love the terms "showbusiness royalty" or "national treasure." But like Sheila, Colin Mochrie falls into both categories, much to his own surprise. A self-styled introvert, or ambivert, as we discussed, Colin has recently taken up hyp-prov. It's a combination of hypnosis and improv. And he says it opens the doors of creativity for anyone.

Colin Mochrie  12:56  
When you improvise, the part of the brain that deals with self criticism, activity lowers, and the creative part of your brain gets more involved. And the same thing happens when you are hypnotized. The self-critical part of your brain activity goes away, and you just become more creative. And people always say, how can you improvise? It's the hardest thing in the world. And it isn't. It just goes against everything we do as humans. You have to listen, you have to accept ideas, and you try to make your partner look good. And that's it. Those are basically the three rules. So it's been fascinating going through hyp-prov, and seeing how people do become great improvisers in that they just react immediately. But it's actually, I think, helped me as an improviser, because it's really helped me hone my listening skills more.

Wendy Mesley  13:42  
That's Colin Mochrie. Such a great improviser. Carolyn Taylor is another deeply hilarious creator, she also found herself a new challenge. So Carolyn, who you might know from Baroness Von Sketch, that TV show, decided that she was going to choreograph an Olympic caliber skating routine to Whitney Houston's hit song, I Have Nothing. Despite the fact that she's never choreographed anything before, and she can't really skate.

Carolyn Taylor  14:10  
Because the connections you make with the other people, and you inhabit the character and the world, and it becomes part of your life. It's like- and I felt that when I was choreographing, and sort of skating, you know, every morning getting up and going, there was something really beautiful and expansive and terrifying about that, to inhabit that world. It was quite overwhelming. It was a lot of sensory stimulus.

Maureen Holloway  14:35  
Did Carolyn succeed? Watch I Have Nothing- it's currently streaming on Crave- and thank us later. It's a terrific show. 

Wendy Mesley  14:44  
Yeah. Top secret, but Mo cried. 

Maureen Holloway  14:48  
You did too, didn't you? 

Wendy Mesley  14:49  
Yeah. Well, it's a great show. You gotta watch it. So another interview that I remember is Lana Payne. It was a remarkable year for her, for Lana Payne She's the national President of Unifor. She's named one of the most influential people in Canada. She has overseen the strike by Metro grocery workers, organized a campaign for Amazon workers in Vancouver, bargained hard for auto workers, and that was all in her first year in office. We talked to her about a lot of things, but she has some particularly cautionary words for journalists, especially women.

Lana Payne  15:24  
This kind of vitriol that we are seeing is way different than when I was a journalist way back in the day. I mean, I think the worst we faced was, you know, the regular sexism, the kind of men being in your personal space, whereas today, it's death threats and, you know, constant attacks through social media, and through their emails and- and DM's, to a point where women journalists are not feeling safe. Not feeling safe about people knowing where they live. And that has to change. And I think media entities are powerful in our society, and they could play a powerful role in pushing back against this, so I think employers have to do more than what they're doing right now.

Maureen Holloway  16:09  
That's Lana Payne. And then there's Stephen Marche. He's a writer, a cultural commentator, and pretty much all-round smarty pants. We could talk with Stephen about anything, but as artificial intelligence becomes as much of a threat as a promise, Stephen says he sees it as a force for good.

Stephen Marche  16:26  
I mean, the pocket calculator is capable of doing arithmetic at a level that no human being has ever been able to do. I mean, we have chess programs that are capable doing chess better than any human being ever. Right? And those are not the end of the world. And since I've been writing about AI 2017, I've heard that the trucking industry is- has about a year left. I've heard that China has a trillion parameter artificial intelligence that is capable of superhuman control. I've heard that they shouldn't teach radiology at universities anymore, because AI has already solved it. None of those things have come to pass. Yet one thing you have to remember about Doomerism in tech, generally, is that it's a form of advertising. Indulge this apocalyptic thinking. It's just not very informed. To me.

Wendy Mesley  17:12  
So that's a positive note to end on as we head into the new year. Stephen Marche released two books this year: The Last Election with Andrew Yang, and On Writing and Failure.

Maureen Holloway  17:26  
That's it for us for now. And we've barely scratched the surface. Thank you to all our wonderful guests this year. Everyone was remarkable and interesting. And we invite you to check them all out on our website, womenofillrepute.com, or of course, as they say, wherever you get your podcasts.

Wendy Mesley  17:43  
Yeah, and we have a stellar lineup of guests joining us in the new year, including gyno guru Dr. Jen Gunter (I've been trying to get her for a year), modern whore Andrea Werhun, filmmaker Molly McGlinn, and someone you might have heard of: Pamela Anderson!

Maureen Holloway  18:01  
I think it's so funny the way you say whore.

Does have to O's, right? Hoor.

Where were we here? Oh, yeah, we want to thank our crew. We want to thank our crew here at Women of Ill Repute, our producers Jet Belgraver and the gang at Soundoff Media.

Wendy Mesley  18:18  
Our social media manager is Kate McQuade, and our sales rep slash General Manager slash biggest cheerleader of all, is Jordana Katz. So she come knockin', please answer the door, because she's keeping the lights on for us.

Maureen Holloway  18:33  
Most of all, thanks to you, our listeners, and our watchers, and also our readers on Substack. We really do- I mean people say this, but we really do value each and every one of you, and we hope that you'll continue to join us as we head into the new season. 

Yeah, so Happy New Year. 

Happy Christma-Hanuk-Kwanzaa-ka.

Wendy Mesley  18:53  
I really don't think that's a thing.

Maureen Holloway  18:56  
Oh yeah, well what's a gyno guru?

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  18:59  
Women of Ill Repute was written and produced by Maureen Holloway and Wendy Mesley. With the help from the team at the Soundoff Media Company and producer Jet Belgraver.